Comments for Well, if this is how the Democrat Party leadership feels... We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2007 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html Wed, 03 Dec 2008 12:53:21 Z Movable Type 4.12 en Copyright 2008 http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification Well, if this is how the Democrat Party leadership feels... ...why bother wasting everybody's time? General Petraeus has better things to do than be Star Chambered, methinks. But, then we couldn't posture and pose and slap him around, could we. From the Washington Times this morning (admittedly a paper that is no fan of the current Congressional Leadership, so allow for some hyperbole). Dems already dismissing Iraq war report By S.A. Miller September 6, 2007 Rod Lamkey Jr./The Washington Times. Sen. Richard J. Durbin, Illinois Democrat, talked with reporters yesterday in Washington. "We know what is going to be in it," he said of the Iraq war report next week.... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html Thu, 06 Sep 2007 09:40:03 -0600 Comment from Alan on 2007-09-07 Zoot McAlor! You guys sure know how to make one's tartan wool shorts shift aboot. Thank God for the Grey Cup, that's all I can say. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64065 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64065 Fri, 07 Sep 2007 09:50:07 -0600 Comment from Instapilot on 2007-09-07 Alan wasn't my target...and we'll just have to agree to disagree on the other chap... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64060 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64060 Fri, 07 Sep 2007 06:53:06 -0600 Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2007-09-07 That's a poor way to talk about Alan, Dusty! As for MarkG8, he just disagrees, but does so politely and doesn't indulge in petty behaviors, so he's not a troll, either, by my reckoning. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64059 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64059 Fri, 07 Sep 2007 06:34:10 -0600 Comment from Instapilot on 2007-09-07 "Lordy...you walk away for five minutes and they're back...," he mutters as he walks around looking for the can of TrollBeGone and the nearest light switch... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64057 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64057 Fri, 07 Sep 2007 05:44:26 -0600 Comment from bad cat robot on 2007-09-06 Alan, I regret to inform you that due to a childhood stint in Thunder Bay, Ontario -- in the winter -- I was granted the honor of certain Canadian privileges (some obscure treaty or other, the Pig War may have been involved ...) Ergo, markg8 remains a busy little beaver. I also have a +5 modifier to any activity attempted in a canoe, and I know the words to "O Canada". The original ones, before PC really got revved up. Plus, great-great-Granpa was a maple sugar farmer in Vermont, so BRING IT ON! (After we feed markg8 some treats and see if he has any more amazing feats of logic for us, that is. I don't know about you but after learning General Doctor Petraeus was a "shill" the scales, like, just fell from my eyes.) http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64049 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64049 Thu, 06 Sep 2007 22:05:16 -0600 Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2007-09-06 Well and good to be all huffy and demanding you plaid-cap-wearing furriner (if you aren't parading in your Budyanka), but what term do you suggest BCR apply in order to soothe your beer-fueled, syrup-soaked ire? And it's not like we don't have beaver down here, too. We've some of the finest beaver on the planet right here in River City! [Casts wary eye on the PG-17c] Hmmm. Still shell-shocked from the Return of Bill. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64047 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64047 Thu, 06 Sep 2007 19:34:43 -0600 Comment from Heartless Libertarian on 2007-09-06 Don't get too frisky, Alan, or we'll never give Lord Stanley's Cup back. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64046 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64046 Thu, 06 Sep 2007 19:34:43 -0600 Comment from Alan (aka Le Trappeur Fou) on 2007-09-06 I just want to put on the record as a good Canadian my indignation at the use of the word "beaver" to describe the comment maker above. Retract and replace, please. We have our canoes at the ready and the maple syrup storage locations in your country have been noted. Govern yourselves accordingly. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64044 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64044 Thu, 06 Sep 2007 19:15:47 -0600 Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2007-09-06 And... Guadalcanal was done on a shoestring and took months longer than they thought it would, and only went our way when we could bring a preponderance of power to bear over what the Japanese could bring in... and that it took longer because we couldn't stop the Japanese from sneaking stuff in... i.e., the local Japanese forces were supplied from outside - and we choked them off because we could bring power to bear on them. And that all took place on a virtually uninhabited island, where we didn't have to try to tread lightly on the local populace, because they pretty much weren't in the line of fire. And we weren't able to do Normandy until we had what Eisenhower believed were forces sufficient to the job, with the conditions set. That said - I agree that the post-invasion planning was punked. I thought so at the time and said so. And I wasn't in favor of the invasion, either. Of course, I wasn't in favor of Kosovo, Bosnia, and Somalia, either. However, since I was still on active duty, I soldiered on to the best of my ability. But I am in the camp of having started this, we need to give it our best shot at finishing it, and am in favor of continuing to hand over missions to the Iraqis and making them take more and more responsibility. As for your earlier comment about Maliki... this Congress hasn't gotten much done, either. Should we abandon them? Are we going to use the US Congress as an example of behavior the Iraqis should emulate? But now I'm just getting mean and picking on an easy target, fair enough. Interestingly enough, Mark - I'm actually on an advisory committee on Veteran's and Military Affairs to a Democrat Representative, Nancy Boyda of Kansas. I actually have access because she thinks I'm not a loony wingnut or moonbat. How does that fit into your perception of this place? 8^ ) http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64043 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64043 Thu, 06 Sep 2007 19:14:35 -0600 Comment from markg8 on 2007-09-06 markg8, you are a busy little beaver, aren't you? I keep finding the same post over and over, at any site committing the sin of defending Gen. Petraeus. Don't you mean any site whining about the Mooney Times article and how he's being exposed as the shill he is? Through the magic of memeorandum I can find all you guys.
I just wanna know why the MSM referred to it as "The Petraeus Report" right up until they started to suspect it was not 100% gloom and doom
Me too. We on the left have been complaining about that for weeks. John,
if the Dem leadership thought the report was going to be bogus, they should have kept their yaps shut,
We've seen this PR offensive before. You keep your yaps shut and you get bulldozed. There is ample and mounting evidence lately that Petraeus and his men in the Green Zone are trying to cook the books along with the WH.
No one promised that casualties would drop during the execution of the surge, did they?
You're right. That hasn't stopped them from trying to claim (falsely) it lately though. Look hardly any casualties in Anbar! Hardly any in Bagdhad! But a lot more in Diyala. Whackamole works as whackamole. To use your analogy there were hardly on Guadalcanal in 1944 either. ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64042 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64042 Thu, 06 Sep 2007 18:25:03 -0600 Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2007-09-06 And Mark misses my broader point - which was if the Dem leadership thought the report was going to be bogus, they should have kept their yaps shut, done the homework, and then asked General Petraeus the hard questions at the hearing. Or, in a burst of real honesty, just said, "Never mind, we're not going to believe you, let's not waste our collective time on this report." Rather than what is, to me, a dismayingly childish run up. And that leaves aside any and all question about what anyone thinks about how the White House and all the lying military guys are saying. Though, I know a lot of lying military guys, actually. And I don't think they're lying. Putting the most positive spin they can, certainly - in some respects they have little choice, given the climate. As for the "casualties are up" mantra - believe me, I know. Each and every fatality drops into my email. No one promised that casualties would drop during the execution of the surge, did they? Did you know, that if, on any given stretch of highway, more cars are driven on it there is an increase in the numbers of accidents and moving violations... until enforcement pressure and structural and procedural changes put downward pressure on things? Kinda like there was this sudden huge spike in casualties in the ETO on June 6, 1944, and those casualities continued to climb, with peaks and valleys, all through the rest of the year and into early 1945? Then, they started dropping until they trickled to a crawl, with most of them being mostly entropy-related vice kinetically induced by outside parties. My irritation is with the entire political class, Mark - but for this post, on this subject, the Dems are leading the way in a petulant fashion. I'd rather they lead as adults. But that's seemingly too much to ask for from the political class these days. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64041 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64041 Thu, 06 Sep 2007 16:21:49 -0600 Comment from bad cat robot on 2007-09-06 markg8, you are a busy little beaver, aren't you? I keep finding the same post over and over, at any site committing the sin of defending Gen. Petraeus. I just wanna know why the MSM referred to it as "The Petraeus Report" right up until they started to suspect it was not 100% gloom and doom .... it's always had the same requirements. Congress specified them. Why are they surprised now? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64040 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64040 Thu, 06 Sep 2007 16:10:22 -0600 Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2007-09-06 Geez, HL, I was trying to keep the Night of the Long Knives in scope... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64039 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64039 Thu, 06 Sep 2007 16:08:47 -0600 Comment from jim b on 2007-09-06 Chinese thread. It stretches all the way to our governor.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64036 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64036 Thu, 06 Sep 2007 15:30:37 -0600 Comment from markg8 on 2007-09-06 John, They're calling it the Bush report because: A. there's no better way to discredit anything these these days than by tieing it to the chronic liars in the White House. B. The WH announced last month they'd in fact be writing the report, not Petraeus. You must have missed it. The Bush WH has politicized every other agency of government, it's no surprise then that Petraeus himself has been distorting facts and outright lying in appearances in rightwing media outlets trying to sell the surge. His past work training the Iraqi military has been a disaster. The proof is in the pudding, the Iraqi military is incompetent, corrupt, and riven with sectarianism. One of his top aides in that effort, Lt Col Levonda Joey Selph is being investigated for billions of dollars worth of missing weapons. There are any number of reports, (GAO, Jones, NIE, etc.) that refute with facts the politicized military and Bush White House PR offensive that the surge is working. US casualties are up, Iraqi casualties are up, sectarian killings are up, Maliki's government is falling apart, there is little to no security, potable water, electricity, or working sewers in most parts of the country. There is a cholera outbreak north of Baghdad. We're arming Sunni insurgents in Anbar. Sure they'll use them against AQ wannabes but you can be sure they'll eventually use them against the Shiites, Kurds and our guys. They've said as much. You don't end a civil war by arming everybody to the teeth. None of the political benchmarks the surge was supposed to allow breathing room for have been met. We never had enough troops to pacify Iraq. The few more brigades we sent were sent because it was all we had to send. This is no plan for success, it's just another attempt to put off the inevitable. And in the long run arming everyone will make the violence much worse. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64034 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64034 Thu, 06 Sep 2007 15:08:26 -0600 Comment from Heartless Libertarian on 2007-09-06 Actually, they'd probably have to sack almost the entire officer corps, since almost every officer I know thinks we can win in Iraq and that we should keep pushing. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64033 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64033 Thu, 06 Sep 2007 14:44:50 -0600 Comment from Rita on 2007-09-06 The Democratic leadership, what a bunch of idiots. I cannot wait for the next election, I am voting for Bugs Bunny. Oh, and thank you Democrats for taking another big chunk of change from my paycheck to pay for some "social" program that has not worked in 40 years. Oh, and DICK Durbin, well the name says it all. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64031 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64031 Thu, 06 Sep 2007 14:16:04 -0600 Comment from fdcol63 on 2007-09-06 http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=352185]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64024 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64024 Thu, 06 Sep 2007 13:00:37 -0600 Comment from fdcol63 on 2007-09-06 " ... Import some Brit, German, French and Canadian Generals to run things while you clean house. ..." This IS their agenda ... to cede American sovereignty and military authority to the UN. John Kerry, interview with the Harvard Crimson, 1970: " ... I'm an internationalist. I'd like to see our troops dispersed through the world only at the directive of the United Nations. ... " ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64023 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64023 Thu, 06 Sep 2007 12:59:02 -0600 Comment from Instapilot on 2007-09-06 John, There's a difference between cognitive dissonance and cognitive absence. I think our problem is the latter... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64021 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/well_if_this_is.html#comment-64021 Thu, 06 Sep 2007 12:26:21 -0600