We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2007 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/processing_the.html Tue, 23 Sep 2008 17:14:17 Z Movable Type 4.12 en Copyright 2008 http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification Yeah, I know, I'm late. Everybody has already stuck their Instanalysis out there. So why bother? Because my take-away from it was... different. And will make some people around here argumentative, I'm guessing. It's been a hard post to write. I'm only going to talk about the rallies and the march, not what went on at the Capitol. I wasn't there, I'll leave that to people who were. SWWBO has a nice little gallery from our visit to the anti-war rally. I've got one that has pictures from the Gathering of Eagles rally, and the counterprotest site, where the... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/processing_the.html http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/processing_the.html Thu, 20 Sep 2007 09:17:20 -0600 ON BOTH SIDES that turned that segment of the march into a hate fest. It doesn't matter who started it - it simply wasn't useful, outside, as Richard noted, a personal satisfaction on the part of those who did the ranting, and quite possibly counter-productive in the audience you're trying to reach - the great middle of this country, who don't want to be associated with hate-filled spewers of bile. Make no mistake - that's what it looks like on TV, even though most of the people who gave in to the impulse were just angry. I didn't say one word critical of Move America Forward, the Eagles, nor ProtestWarrior, and the whole concept behind them - which I fully and financially support. But I'll criticize the behavior of the people who tossed the F-bombs - ON BOTH SIDES. But let's face it - the other side doesn't read me, nor are they going to be influenced by me. So I'll try to influence the people who do. And the silent ones, who simply observe and make decisions we don't see until election day. And hey, I'm a not a King. If I were a King in this business, I'd have been on the Eagles podium, but I wasn't on the program, was I? I did'nt have a backstage pass. Almost no one recognized me, though there were a lot of readers there. I'm a supporter of the mission, the troops, and the cause. And if we can't look at ourselves critically, then we're not being honest with ourselves. The battle isn't for the hearts and minds of Move America Forward, or MoveOn.org - it's for all those people watching on TV. Sorry if I annoyed you, but I'm sticking to my guns. I'm also closing comments on this thread - because the discussion continues up at this new post, and that's where the comments should go, not to stifle the discussion.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/processing_the.html#comment-64661 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/processing_the.html#comment-64661 Fri, 21 Sep 2007 06:17:46 -0600 Uh..."?" I doubt you'll be back, but he was talking about the screaming and cursing at the other coo-coos screaming and cursing. Stand up, hold your sign, shout your slogans...all good. don't scream "F-n' traitor" into the face of a five year old. Now that's rude (and in my neck of the woods, something you would get your a** kicked for). http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/processing_the.html#comment-64660 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/processing_the.html#comment-64660 Fri, 21 Sep 2007 04:21:43 -0600 So was the 27 city Pro Troop Rally caravan that Move America Forward put energy into, was that counterproductive also???? The purpose of the rally in Washington was also to show Support for the Troops, get petitions signed for Congress and to protect monuments and memorials along the anti-war parade route. Geez, nothing like insulting the very people that are trying to show the Troops that we support them. If you think that is counterproductive then you are rude. Why bother putting any energy into Supporting the Troops when YOU think it's soo damn counterproductive? (sarcasm) Must be nice to be king. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/processing_the.html#comment-64658 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/processing_the.html#comment-64658 Fri, 21 Sep 2007 01:57:10 -0600 Maybe the screaming on our side, bad as it may have seemed to you, was nothing more than a primal release for having to grin and bear it for the last SIX YEARS. Just sayin http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/processing_the.html#comment-64651 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/processing_the.html#comment-64651 Thu, 20 Sep 2007 23:39:15 -0600 Actually, Jim, outside the little girl, I don't have any sympathy for them either. However, most of the ones doing the yelling were the younger ones. The older ones like me were content to do sloganeering, sign waving, and just being there - that being what was absent during the Vietnam era. And in my own fashion, I had to be geeky by invoking Godwin's Law on the marchers. But I did it politely. Don't get me wrong - I'm glad we were *there* - I just don't think the yelling and screaming are useful. When people ask me why I respond politely to the trolls and not just rant back here at the Castle - my answer is simple. I'm usually speaking not to the troll - but to all those people who visit here but never comment, just read, and observe. And one reason they do so, and one reason my voice is respected in a growing audience, is because I treat people with respect, even if they are at times richly undeserving of same. Because this isn't *about* the troll. We win no converts when TV news shows us as howling wingnuts, however satisfying that may be to us there, at the moment. Just as we are not impressed when we see screaming moonbats. The greater world just sees the twisted faces spewing bile, and we lose support among those who might otherwise support us - and why? Because except the the signage and slogans... we don't look all that different from the other side. It's the people who watch from the sideline that I'm after. I already know where the Eagles, Protest Warriors, and ANSWERITEs stand. I'm not going to change an attitude there. I'm after my sister, and her friends and acquaintances and social circle. And yelling obscenties doesn't get me much traction there. Just as yelling obscenities at me doesn't gain my respect or change my mind. That's my point. Not that it doesn't make people feel good, during the event. Just that it hurts more than it helps. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/processing_the.html#comment-64646 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/processing_the.html#comment-64646 Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:46:37 -0600 I have no sympathy for the Moonbats .... the will program their kids no matter what. My sympathies lie with those in the military. Perhaps because I have a son and a son-in law involved ... perhaps because I am a former Marine who endured the Vietnam cr*p I have no sympathy for those who enjoy the freedoms of this country without paying their dues. My son-in-law just got homesick and did not sign another contract with the National Guard (code name Nasty Girls with the SF types) he did sign with the Marine Corps Reserve .... a step in his plan to return to active duty in the Marines. My son just received orders changing his MOS to 18 E. Thank God for those who go and make noise in protest of the Barking Moonbats who give aid and comfort to the enemy. I wish they were there beside me in the Vietnam thing .. they weren't. I think a lot of those involved in calling the morons traitors are Viet Vets who want better for their sons and daughters. Semper Fi http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/processing_the.html#comment-64644 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/processing_the.html#comment-64644 Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:29:09 -0600 Very well spoken, John. Thanks. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/processing_the.html#comment-64643 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/processing_the.html#comment-64643 Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:03:27 -0600 I don't think it's too hard to admit you will find blockheads stirring the pot on both sides. Some people just revel in the chaos. They want things to turn ugly. You just aren't one of them. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/processing_the.html#comment-64641 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/processing_the.html#comment-64641 Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:01:42 -0600 Heh, this post is Cassandra-length... ...which just goes to show... I'm eminently replaceable! :) Nice post, John. Couldn't agree more.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/processing_the.html#comment-64639 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/processing_the.html#comment-64639 Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:13:11 -0600 Understand your position, Steve - my point is that there was no gain, zero, zilch, nada, aside from the adrenaline rush, realized from the descent to obscenity. Be there, yes. Have signs, yes. Have the rally, yes. And when they walk by, drown 'em with chants, or, ignore 'em. But don't drop the F-bomb and think you're having an impact. Not a positive one, anyway. Hey, it's just me - see the Rulez. It works 'round here, we oughta try it out there. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/processing_the.html#comment-64637 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/processing_the.html#comment-64637 Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:21:23 -0600 Sir, I know what you were saying, but given the relative dedication of each of the two groups, whether good or bad, did you really think there would be any reasonable interaction between them. I am an analytical man, a Marine veteran of 20 years, and a Signals Intelligence type. I look at both sides in order to better know my enemy and the ANSWER idiots are the enemy, plain and simple. They choose to be fools, and as such are not entitled to sympathy or mercy. The stakes are too great, because it was liberal smarmy idiots like them that f*cked up Rome, and destroyed it. Unchecked, they will do it here too. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/processing_the.html#comment-64632 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/processing_the.html#comment-64632 Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:43:30 -0600 Yeah.....tasers. At least the screams would have sounded musical. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/processing_the.html#comment-64631 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/processing_the.html#comment-64631 Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:37:44 -0600 Kat - exactly my point, down to the part of turning your backs on them, which I discussed with several participants. I was all for attending. But I just wanted to start tasing the idiotarians. And I'm sure there were adults in the march who should have been armed with tasers, too. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/processing_the.html#comment-64630 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/processing_the.html#comment-64630 Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:33:57 -0600 Great post. Agree 100 percent. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/processing_the.html#comment-64628 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/processing_the.html#comment-64628 Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:02:49 -0600 Well, actually, aside from the shouting of slogans (isn't that what people do at rallies? Try to get their point across and fire up the troops?), I thought the point was to have a "presence" to let people know that there are people that support one side or the other. And, of course, to get some coverage from the press to let a broader audience know that there are possibly ideological travelers out there that they don't hear about because the media doesn't interview them much and definitely doesn't talk about them when an "anti-everything" march is on. Of course, I am looking at this strictly from a "broad view" of what was hoped to be accomplished. I a sense, let a broader audience know that the "anti-everything" that is always portrayed as "anti-war" or "peace" rallies do not represent all of America's opinion. The fact that any part of the counter-rally got mentioned in the news is somewhat of a coup. Change the minds of the people on the other side of the picket line? Probably not, and particularly there were no audience to watch the parade then few bystanders were confronted with information and changed. But, again, the broader view. Still, I think I liked it better when at the last rally the GOE turned their backs on them and met them with silence. Because, that is the reality as the anti-everything group dwindles away...they haven't changed anything and they can't even get up the gumption to go all "Vietnam". We're in a period of malaise and fatigue coupled with concerns about the economy that seems to be going like gang busters but is riding awful close to the cliff. Then we have the possibility of war with Iran. I can't tell if people are just tired or if they are sitting back holding their breaths. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/processing_the.html#comment-64627 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/processing_the.html#comment-64627 Thu, 20 Sep 2007 12:07:32 -0600 Heh, this post is Cassandra-length... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/processing_the.html#comment-64625 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/09/processing_the.html#comment-64625 Thu, 20 Sep 2007 11:06:55 -0600