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Processing the Protest and Counter Protest last weekend.

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Yeah, I know, I'm late. Everybody has already stuck their Instanalysis out there. So why bother?

Because my take-away from it was... different. And will make some people around here argumentative, I'm guessing. It's been a hard post to write. I'm only going to talk about the rallies and the march, not what went on at the Capitol. I wasn't there, I'll leave that to people who were.

SWWBO has a nice little gallery from our visit to the anti-war rally. I've got one that has pictures from the Gathering of Eagles rally, and the counterprotest site, where the two groups met and interacted along the route of march. Yeah, I got to meet Michelle Malkin and get a hug, too! But even that and an hour with the President doesn't get me on her blogroll... ;^ )

I've talked, tongue in cheek, about SWWBO's adventure among the ANSWER folks. I swear, by the time I decided to E&E (escape and evade) out of there, the top of her head was bouncing around like the valve on a pressure cooker, ready to vent. Which, of course, is why I called for the extraction. It was their rally, and they were throwing out red meat for their crowd. I just didn't see it as my place to monkey-wrench it (as some of the ANSWER-types tried at the Gathering of Eagles rally). Let's face it - people going to things like that are going to be passionate about whatever it is that brought them there, and the rally was to fire up and organize the troops. What, aside from antagonizing them, are you going to accomplish by jumping into their den and peeing on their furniture?

It's not "brave." It rarely results in civil conversation. It doesn't change anyone's mind. It realizes the dreams of the organizers, and it makes the Press happy, because they might get some good footage for the evening news. Mostly, it's just dumb and you end up playing into the hands of the people you *think* you are scoring points on. But it does put you at risk, for little gain except coffee-house braggadocio.

This is true pro or con. Just as fomenting trouble at the ANSWER rally didn't strike me as smart, the ANSWER types who, with faint heart (good thing, the Eagles were fired up) tried to insert themselves into the Eagles pro-military rally were dumber than rocks, too. Dumb. Not brave, not daring, not advancing the cause - just, dumb. And they looked even sillier as they fled, sandals flapping, from the phalanx of greying Eagles who surged at them when they approached.

The ANSWER rally suffered, as they always seem to in my very limited experience, from a diffusion of message, as every counter-cultural cause and moonbat theory was on display, from the 9/11 Truthers to Palestinian Right of Returners, to Che-idolizers, to Ron Paul supporters were on display distracting from the main message, bravely carried by tired Boomers reliving their youth (and probably using their original signage), and eager young Speakers of Truth to Power types who felt the need to hide behind bandanas, probably because they didn't want to lose their job at the McDonalds or whatever law firm they're clerking at. Oh, and probably a quarter of the young men were there hoping that being there was going to result in night-time athletic activity. That's how *I* saw it. They of course, were storing up memories of how they stuck it to The Shrub 200 yards away at the White House before going on to spank Congress for not yielding to their demands, right.this.minute.

Hey, it was their rally. One of them, looking at the Gathering of Eagles, would write similar stuff about that rally.

They both had their wince-inducing moments. But aside from the comfort level, the Gathering of Eagles rally had a lot of flag-waving, positive energy and it was a fun group to be around.

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I got to meet some very cool people, but that's a different post.

After SWWBO and I e&e'd out of the ANSWER rally, we went down to the Navy Memorial, across from the National Archives, to await the ANSWER parade to the Capitol. The Gathering Of Eagles guys were in front of the Archives, the Protest Warriors, ably led by Concrete Bob, were on the Navy Memorial side, and DC police, US Park Police, and even Maryland police were on hand to keep things in hand. Gad, how much does something like this cost the District?

There were 4-6,000 marchers by my estimation, 8k at the outside. There weren't any supportive crowds lining the road, as we made our way down Pennsylvania Avenue to the Memorial. The only significant crowd was the counter-protest, which had mebbe 1,500 or so people - but I admit to not being an expert at estimating crowd sizes. There certainly weren't tens of thousands of anybody around, however.

This is where I'm going to start to get in trouble. I don't think the counter-demonstration, as it unfolded, was productive. I think the rally was an excellent idea. Heck, I think the ANSWER rally was a fine idea, it's still a mostly-free country, regardless of what the people who managed to bravely shout "Free Speech!" towards the White House with no fear of being clubbed, arrested or shot seem to think.

Had both groups just engaged in a mutual Slogan Shouting Contest, like opposing college football fans do, it would have been fine. And being there, being seen, along the march route was fine.

But when the first person flung out the "F-word" - and if I knew who it was, or which side, I'd have their picture up here, believe me - it went rapidly downhill, as people who'd been discussing philosophy, finance, and child-rearing turned off their higher-brain function and let their lizard-brain take over. No violence, but a lot of spittle-flecked hate that was painful to watch and embarrassing to be in the middle of. Just like the chasing of the Code Pinkers on the sidewalk with a bullhorn yelling "Soo-eee!" at an ear-damaging volume wasn't useful. [Side note, we do know the "Soo-eee!" call is intended to bring the pigs to you, not chase them away, right? Leave aside how the police doing their job by escorting the Code Pinkers might take a pig call, not to mention the hearing damage. - oh, and yes, I *do* know what side I'm on, believe me].

What could have been a simple demonstration of support for opposing viewpoints just degenerated to mindless drivel punctuated by sprays of spittle. On both sides, mind you. No one was draped in a mantle of virtue here.

What really hit it home for me was this.

Hosting provided by FotoTime There's a bigger version here.

Leave aside a whole 'nother post about leaving your kids out of something like this - look at that little girl. There she is, among the adults, thinking to herself, "Gee, isn't this fun! We're against war and for flowers and children and puppies!" - and she ends up having to run a gauntlet of faces twisted with hate and contempt, spewing vile words and stupid slogans. No, she shouldn't have been there, because sadly, that interaction seems to be inevitable. I was watching, no one was directing anything at her personally - because if they had been, I'd have jumped them myself - but ask yourself - what useful purpose was truly served?

Were minds changed? Nope. Were attitudes hardened? You bet. Was a larger audience somehow affected? Nope. No more than the simple presence of the counter-protest would have achieved, without the mindlessness on display when idiotarians of both sides sank to the lowest common denominator.

Mind you, there weren't a huge number of people on either side being room-temperature stupid. Clearly, it doesn't take many drops of vitriol to ruin the stew.

I loved the Gathering of Eagles Rally. It was a positive event. I didn't mind the ANSWER rally, grating as many of the ideas on display were. Both were good for a democratic society.

I'm glad that the Eagles and Protest Warriors took station along the parade route.

But I wish the cretins of both sides had stayed home.

My most striking moment, aside from the look of fear and confusion on the face of that little girl?

This.

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To me, the documents on display inside that building created the space for the existence of the placards displayed outside that building. In there lies the paper that sets forth the concept I swore the oath to. Outside, embodied in the presence of both sides, was an ideal representative of one of the myriad reasons I swore the oath.

Not to mention that little girl - who is the symbol of the main reason I swore that oath - the future.

The discussion continues above - and new comments should shift to that thread.

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16 Comments

Heh, this post is Cassandra-length...
 
Well, actually, aside from the shouting of slogans (isn't that what people do at rallies? Try to get their point across and fire up the troops?), I thought the point was to have a "presence" to let people know that there are people that support one side or the other. And, of course, to get some coverage from the press to let a broader audience know that there are possibly ideological travelers out there that they don't hear about because the media doesn't interview them much and definitely doesn't talk about them when an "anti-everything" march is on. Of course, I am looking at this strictly from a "broad view" of what was hoped to be accomplished. I a sense, let a broader audience know that the "anti-everything" that is always portrayed as "anti-war" or "peace" rallies do not represent all of America's opinion. The fact that any part of the counter-rally got mentioned in the news is somewhat of a coup. Change the minds of the people on the other side of the picket line? Probably not, and particularly there were no audience to watch the parade then few bystanders were confronted with information and changed. But, again, the broader view. Still, I think I liked it better when at the last rally the GOE turned their backs on them and met them with silence. Because, that is the reality as the anti-everything group dwindles away...they haven't changed anything and they can't even get up the gumption to go all "Vietnam". We're in a period of malaise and fatigue coupled with concerns about the economy that seems to be going like gang busters but is riding awful close to the cliff. Then we have the possibility of war with Iran. I can't tell if people are just tired or if they are sitting back holding their breaths.
 
Great post. Agree 100 percent.
 
Kat - exactly my point, down to the part of turning your backs on them, which I discussed with several participants. I was all for attending. But I just wanted to start tasing the idiotarians. And I'm sure there were adults in the march who should have been armed with tasers, too.
 
Yeah.....tasers. At least the screams would have sounded musical.
 
Sir, I know what you were saying, but given the relative dedication of each of the two groups, whether good or bad, did you really think there would be any reasonable interaction between them. I am an analytical man, a Marine veteran of 20 years, and a Signals Intelligence type. I look at both sides in order to better know my enemy and the ANSWER idiots are the enemy, plain and simple. They choose to be fools, and as such are not entitled to sympathy or mercy. The stakes are too great, because it was liberal smarmy idiots like them that f*cked up Rome, and destroyed it. Unchecked, they will do it here too.
 
Understand your position, Steve - my point is that there was no gain, zero, zilch, nada, aside from the adrenaline rush, realized from the descent to obscenity. Be there, yes. Have signs, yes. Have the rally, yes. And when they walk by, drown 'em with chants, or, ignore 'em. But don't drop the F-bomb and think you're having an impact. Not a positive one, anyway. Hey, it's just me - see the Rulez. It works 'round here, we oughta try it out there.
 
Heh, this post is Cassandra-length... ...which just goes to show... I'm eminently replaceable! :) Nice post, John. Couldn't agree more.
 
I don't think it's too hard to admit you will find blockheads stirring the pot on both sides. Some people just revel in the chaos. They want things to turn ugly. You just aren't one of them.
 
Very well spoken, John. Thanks.
 
I have no sympathy for the Moonbats .... the will program their kids no matter what. My sympathies lie with those in the military. Perhaps because I have a son and a son-in law involved ... perhaps because I am a former Marine who endured the Vietnam cr*p I have no sympathy for those who enjoy the freedoms of this country without paying their dues. My son-in-law just got homesick and did not sign another contract with the National Guard (code name Nasty Girls with the SF types) he did sign with the Marine Corps Reserve .... a step in his plan to return to active duty in the Marines. My son just received orders changing his MOS to 18 E. Thank God for those who go and make noise in protest of the Barking Moonbats who give aid and comfort to the enemy. I wish they were there beside me in the Vietnam thing .. they weren't. I think a lot of those involved in calling the morons traitors are Viet Vets who want better for their sons and daughters. Semper Fi
 
Actually, Jim, outside the little girl, I don't have any sympathy for them either. However, most of the ones doing the yelling were the younger ones. The older ones like me were content to do sloganeering, sign waving, and just being there - that being what was absent during the Vietnam era. And in my own fashion, I had to be geeky by invoking Godwin's Law on the marchers. But I did it politely. Don't get me wrong - I'm glad we were *there* - I just don't think the yelling and screaming are useful. When people ask me why I respond politely to the trolls and not just rant back here at the Castle - my answer is simple. I'm usually speaking not to the troll - but to all those people who visit here but never comment, just read, and observe. And one reason they do so, and one reason my voice is respected in a growing audience, is because I treat people with respect, even if they are at times richly undeserving of same. Because this isn't *about* the troll. We win no converts when TV news shows us as howling wingnuts, however satisfying that may be to us there, at the moment. Just as we are not impressed when we see screaming moonbats. The greater world just sees the twisted faces spewing bile, and we lose support among those who might otherwise support us - and why? Because except the the signage and slogans... we don't look all that different from the other side. It's the people who watch from the sideline that I'm after. I already know where the Eagles, Protest Warriors, and ANSWERITEs stand. I'm not going to change an attitude there. I'm after my sister, and her friends and acquaintances and social circle. And yelling obscenties doesn't get me much traction there. Just as yelling obscenities at me doesn't gain my respect or change my mind. That's my point. Not that it doesn't make people feel good, during the event. Just that it hurts more than it helps.
 
Maybe the screaming on our side, bad as it may have seemed to you, was nothing more than a primal release for having to grin and bear it for the last SIX YEARS. Just sayin
 
So was the 27 city Pro Troop Rally caravan that Move America Forward put energy into, was that counterproductive also???? The purpose of the rally in Washington was also to show Support for the Troops, get petitions signed for Congress and to protect monuments and memorials along the anti-war parade route. Geez, nothing like insulting the very people that are trying to show the Troops that we support them. If you think that is counterproductive then you are rude. Why bother putting any energy into Supporting the Troops when YOU think it's soo damn counterproductive? (sarcasm) Must be nice to be king.
 
Uh..."?" I doubt you'll be back, but he was talking about the screaming and cursing at the other coo-coos screaming and cursing. Stand up, hold your sign, shout your slogans...all good. don't scream "F-n' traitor" into the face of a five year old. Now that's rude (and in my neck of the woods, something you would get your a** kicked for).
 
?inTexas- From your comment, I can only assume you perhaps didn't read the post closely, nor the comments. Possibly I pissed you off too early in the piece. Which, in a sense, proves my point. Read it again, and you'll see I said the Eagles rally was GOOD. I also said that from a healthy democracy perspective, the ANSWER rally was good, though it didn't do much for me personally. I also said that positioning ourselves along the path of the march, being present - and even being vocal - was good. Ergo, my opinion of the 27 city Pro Troop Rally caravan that Move America Forward put energy into, is - demonstrably inferable from the post... GOOD. What is *not* good, was the behavior of the small number of people, ON BOTH SIDES that turned that segment of the march into a hate fest. It doesn't matter who started it - it simply wasn't useful, outside, as Richard noted, a personal satisfaction on the part of those who did the ranting, and quite possibly counter-productive in the audience you're trying to reach - the great middle of this country, who don't want to be associated with hate-filled spewers of bile. Make no mistake - that's what it looks like on TV, even though most of the people who gave in to the impulse were just angry. I didn't say one word critical of Move America Forward, the Eagles, nor ProtestWarrior, and the whole concept behind them - which I fully and financially support. But I'll criticize the behavior of the people who tossed the F-bombs - ON BOTH SIDES. But let's face it - the other side doesn't read me, nor are they going to be influenced by me. So I'll try to influence the people who do. And the silent ones, who simply observe and make decisions we don't see until election day. And hey, I'm a not a King. If I were a King in this business, I'd have been on the Eagles podium, but I wasn't on the program, was I? I did'nt have a backstage pass. Almost no one recognized me, though there were a lot of readers there. I'm a supporter of the mission, the troops, and the cause. And if we can't look at ourselves critically, then we're not being honest with ourselves. The battle isn't for the hearts and minds of Move America Forward, or MoveOn.org - it's for all those people watching on TV. Sorry if I annoyed you, but I'm sticking to my guns. I'm also closing comments on this thread - because the discussion continues up at this new post, and that's where the comments should go, not to stifle the discussion.
 
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