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  <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1/tag:www.thedonovan.com,2007://1.7871-</id>
  <updated>2008-12-03T12:55:59Z</updated>
  <title>Comments for Juxtapositions...</title>
  <subtitle>We&apos;re the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost.  All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT,  and KA 2003-2007</subtitle>
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  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2007://1.7871</id>
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    <link rel="service.edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/cgi-bin/mt41/mt-atom.cgi/weblog/blog_id=1/entry_id=7871" title="Juxtapositions..." />
    <published>2007-08-07T10:42:27Z</published>
    <updated>2008-01-14T21:02:45Z</updated>
    <title>Juxtapositions...</title>
    <summary>From an email: Subject: Definition of a Veteran............ Definition of a Veteran. A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to &quot;The United States of America&quot;, for an amount of &quot;up to and including my life.&quot; That is honor, and there are way too many people on the left in this country who no longer understand it. -Author unknown. H/t, Bob W. From a Congressional news release: Subject: Legislation Allows Veterans to Salute the Flag* WASHINGTON, D.C. - U.S. Senator Jim Inhofe (R-Okla.) today praised the passage by unanimous consent of...</summary>
    <author>
      <name>The Armorer</name>
      <uri>http://www.thedonovan.com</uri>
    </author>
    
    <category term="Politics" />
    
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      <![CDATA[<p>From an email:</p>

<p>Subject: Definition of a Veteran............</p>

<blockquote>
Definition of a Veteran.

<p>A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life."</p>

<p>That is honor, and there are way too many people on the left in this country who no longer understand it.</p>

<p>-Author unknown.<br />
</blockquote></p>

<p>H/t, Bob W.</p>

<p>From a Congressional news release:</p>

<blockquote>
Subject: Legislation Allows Veterans to Salute the Flag*

<p>WASHINGTON, D.C. - U.S. Senator Jim Inhofe (R-Okla.) today praised the passage by unanimous consent of his bill (S.1877) clarifying U.S. law to </p>

<p>allow veterans and servicemen not in uniform to salute the flag. Current law (US Code Title 4, Chapter 1) states that veterans and servicemen not in</p>

<p>uniform should place their hand over their heart without clarifying whether they can or should salute the flag. </p>

<p>"The salute is a form of honor and respect, representing pride in one's military service," Senator Inhofe said. "Veterans and service members continue representing the military services even when not in uniform. "Unfortunately, current U.S. law leaves confusion as to whether veterans and service members out of uniform can or should salute the flag. My legislation will clarify this regulation, allowing veterans and servicemen alike to salute the flag, whether they are in uniform or not. "I look forward to seeing those who have served saluting proudly at baseball games, parades, and formal events. I believe this is an appropriate way to honor and recognize the 25 million veterans in the United States  who have served in the military and remain as role models to others citizens. Those who are currently serving or have served in the military have earned this right, and their recognition will be an inspiration to others."<br />
</blockquote></p>

<p></p>

<p>From an editorial by <strong><a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-brooks3aug03,0,3406790.column?coll=la-opinion-center">Rosa Brooks in the LA Times</a></strong>.</p>

<blockquote>
The empty rhetoric of heroism is everywhere these days. You know what I mean. Pat Tillman -- the former NFL star -- is "an American hero," apparently because he volunteered for duty along with several hundred thousand other people, then had the misfortune to be accidentally shot by his own side. Every wounded service member is a "hero" too: Sen. Hillary Clinton proudly sponsored the "Heroes at Home Act of 2007," intended to improve medical care for wounded military personnel, and the Defense Department recently sponsored the "Hiring Heroes Career Fair" to encourage companies to hire wounded veterans. No soldier left behind! 

<p>Bah, humbug.</p>

<p>Before you run me out of town on a rail, let me be clear: I respect the service and sacrifice of the troops. It takes guts to volunteer for the military. Injured service members deserve top-quality care, and the families of those killed deserve our deepest compassion. Soldiers, firefighters, police and many others accept risk and privation to serve the public, and we should be grateful. </p>

<p>But it's a big mistake to mix up the idea of service -- or the idea of sacrifice and suffering -- with the idea of heroism. <br />
</blockquote></p>

<p>Heh.  She raises a valid point in many respects, ones that I agree with on the cheapening of real heroism.  You should read the whole thing - but she also displays her complete ignorance of things military - especially when she tossed in "No soldier left behind."  I have actually used the firefighter example myself - pointing out that we honor the untrained civilian for doing things in fires that we *expect* a well trained fireman to do - because the relative risk involved is disparate.</p>

<p>She brings up these examples:</p>

<blockquote>
Take Jason Dunham, a 22-year-old Marine corporal who, in 2004, threw his helmet and then his body on top of an Iraqi insurgent's grenade, saving the lives of the Marines around him. Dunham died of his wounds and became one of only two soldiers in the Iraq war to be awarded the Medal of Honor, the highest military decoration in the United States. But in a world where every service member is a "hero," how many Americans have heard of Dunham's fatal courage?

<p>There are plenty of other genuine heroes whose names will never be recorded, like the utility workers described by a Cornell University research team: On 9/11, "they went into the flooded Verizon building just north of World Trade Center 6, risking electrocution in chest-deep water and kerosene to shut off the building's massive circuit-breakers by hand." But when each of the thousands of stockbrokers and secretaries in the World Trade Center qualifies for the "everyone's a hero" award, why bother to identify those whose actions were unusually selfless?<br />
</blockquote></p>

<p>Of course, at the base of it all - it's just the building of a fascist America, as she notes at the end of her piece.</p>

<p>If that's the case, Ms. Brooks - your profession is helping lead the charge.</p>

<p><br />
*I would note, that at Rotary, we do the National Anthem at the beginning of our weekly meeting.  I do the hand over the heart thing there, as it's what the club does, and in that context, I don't wish to set myself apart from my fellow Rotarians, many of whom are not veterans.  At most other events, I salute - as I felt I had earned that right, and the language was always iffy.  Good to see Congress come down on my side...</p>

<p><br />
</p>]]>
      
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  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2007://1.7871-comment:63026</id>
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    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/juxtapositions_1.html#comment-63026" />
    <title>Comment from Justthisguy on 2007-08-08</title>
    <author>
        <name>Justthisguy</name>
        <uri>http://enemiesofthelibrary.blogspot.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://enemiesofthelibrary.blogspot.com">
        I do not have the hat-wearing habit, but might wear one on an occasion where I ought to salute, and do so by uncovering.  Why Naval People don&apos;t salute when uncovered: Their salute is a stylized uncovering, while the Army salute is more Roman-like. The actual gestures are exactly the same, but there are still differences in the when and why. I was watching an old British movie about a fictitious corvette (HMS Compass Rose) in which one of the characters saluted a lady instead of tipping his hat to her, he being in uniform at the time
    </content>
    <published>2007-08-09T01:25:38Z</published>
    <updated>2007-08-09T01:25:38Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2007://1.7871-comment:63016</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2007://1.7871" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/juxtapositions_1.html"/>
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    <title>Comment from BillT on 2007-08-08</title>
    <author>
        <name>BillT</name>
        <uri>http://www.thedonovan.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.thedonovan.com">
        In 1964, I was given this bit of advice: &quot;When in doubt, salute.&quot;

For what it&apos;s worth, I&apos;ve seen eight-year-old kids in t-shirts and cutoffs render a salute during the national anthem and was tickled to see it.
    </content>
    <published>2007-08-08T05:26:57Z</published>
    <updated>2007-08-08T05:26:57Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2007://1.7871-comment:63014</id>
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    <title>Comment from HomefrontSix on 2007-08-07</title>
    <author>
        <name>HomefrontSix</name>
        <uri>http://homefrontsix.blogspot.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://homefrontsix.blogspot.com">
        I would think, as a veteran, one has earned the right to choose whether to offer up a formal salute of the flag or place your hand over your heart. 

As for firemen, police officers, et. al I think they too have earned the right to salute should they choose to.
    </content>
    <published>2007-08-08T02:50:45Z</published>
    <updated>2007-08-08T02:50:45Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2007://1.7871-comment:63013</id>
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    <title>Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2007-08-07</title>
    <author>
        <name>John of Argghhh!</name>
        <uri>http://www.thedonovan.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.thedonovan.com">
        S&apos;fine with me.  Service is service, in a sense, and the uniformed police and fire have a long standing tradition of saluting at formal occasions in uniform, especially funerals, and heck, half if not more of them are veterans, too.
    </content>
    <published>2007-08-08T00:07:09Z</published>
    <updated>2007-08-08T00:07:09Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2007://1.7871-comment:63012</id>
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    <title>Comment from P_G_S on 2007-08-07</title>
    <author>
        <name>P_G_S</name>
        <uri>http://www.techography.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.techography.com">
        How would you guys feel, as veterans, if off-duty or retired Fire and Police were allowed to salute also? Just a thought.
    </content>
    <published>2007-08-07T22:26:14Z</published>
    <updated>2007-08-07T22:26:14Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2007://1.7871-comment:62994</id>
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    <title>Comment from Tim on 2007-08-07</title>
    <author>
        <name>Tim</name>
        <uri>http://ditto</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://ditto">
        I was going to say what BillT said, only not nearly as well.  Would that someone could actually put that question to Ms Brooks for response.
    </content>
    <published>2007-08-07T14:45:01Z</published>
    <updated>2007-08-07T14:45:01Z</updated>
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    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2007://1.7871-comment:62993</id>
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    <title>Comment from BillT on 2007-08-07</title>
    <author>
        <name>BillT</name>
        <uri>http://www.thedonovan.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.thedonovan.com">
        <![CDATA[<em>But in a world where every service member is a "hero," how many Americans have heard of Dunham's fatal courage?</em>

Why, Mizz Brooks, in a world where the traditional print and electronic media claim to be the purveyors of every item of worthwhile information the public could ever need, does that question require asking?
 ]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-08-07T13:24:50Z</published>
    <updated>2007-08-07T13:24:50Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2007://1.7871-comment:62990</id>
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    <title>Comment from Oldloadr on 2007-08-07</title>
    <author>
        <name>Oldloadr</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        1.	“Hero” is not the only word in the language that has been over used by people addicted to hyperbole.  Some other good examples: 
a.	Racist (if you disagree with a minority politician, you must be a racist)
b.	Xenophobe (if you insist on securing the US borders, you are a Xenophobe)  Caution: if you don’t mention the Northern border ever time you mention the Southern border, you are also a bigot
c.	Bigot (if you insist that people who come the US actually assimilate, learn English and be tolerant of the pre-existing customs and mores, you are a bigot)
2.	IMHO, heroism exists in degrees and perhaps concentric circles.  An example:  One day, while I was sitting at Camp Wolf, awaiting my turn on a C-130 to BIAP, I fell into conversation with a young Marine (E-2).  In the conversation, he alluded to the fact that he was down on himself because he had originally volunteered for Marine Recon, but later changed his mind and became “just a plain ol’ rifleman.”  I said to him, “Do you realize that less than 1% of your generation will even consider joining the USAF (I explained that I was a retired AF MSgt.), which is the least demanding of the services and yet you successfully completed Marine boot camp and are about to deploy to a war zone.  You are the best of the best of your generation; don’t be down on yourself because you are not the best of the best of the best!”  That seemed to have perked him up as he had never seen it that way.  Sometimes, we on the inside are too close and forget the broader picture of the society from whence we came.
3.	On the same note: if there weren’t degrees of heroism, wouldn’t there be only one award for heroism, instead of several?

    </content>
    <published>2007-08-07T12:47:01Z</published>
    <updated>2007-08-07T12:47:01Z</updated>
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