We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2007 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html Wed, 03 Dec 2008 12:53:57 Z Movable Type 4.12 en Copyright 2008 http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification Your horoscope for today: There’s wisdom to be gained from combing through the recesses of your soul and clearing out the cobwebs. Helicopter pilots don’t have recesses, we have compartments. Whether we’re born compartmentalizers or we learn the trick in Flight School doesn’t matter, we’re fully-functional compartmentalizers before they shake us out of the bag with Junior Wings on our chests. When you’re in the air and nothing is going wrong, you have the luxury of browsing the compartments. When things turn sour, the lids to the compartments slam shut except the one labeled “Fly The Aircraft!” -- that mental... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html Fri, 31 Aug 2007 00:47:46 -0600 That changes my perception of the incident. It’s very possible that Huey was hit by a SA-7 or prototype weapon. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63898 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63898 Mon, 03 Sep 2007 00:43:48 -0600 THIS war is not the only one fought by incredible men and women. Amen, HF6. They *all* were. Ledger -- The official report says they died as a result of injuries sustained when the aircraft was brought down by small arms fire. There was no post-crash fire and no one saw him trailing smoke. That said, no one in the flight saw muzzle flashes or tracers. None of the rest of us took any hits from small arms fire -- considering our altitude, how close we were flying and normal dispersion of ground fire by the time it gets to a thousand feet, at least two of us would have had bullet punctures, even from one quick burst. The ground troops repeatedly stated it was a rocket that came from directly beneath our flight path. Not an RPG. A rocket. We think he was hit with a Strella that went into the hellhole, exploded, and jammed the control linkages. Although the Army insists the SA-7 was not introduced into South Vietnam until 1972, in 1970, a couple of us dodged what could only have been missiles. On one flight into Cambodia, I saw a crashed Huey near the border north of Chi Lang and was told by one of the SFs on board it had been hit by a missile; the aircraft was crushed, but pretty much intact.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63881 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63881 Sun, 02 Sep 2007 14:24:15 -0600 Thanks, BillT. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63869 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63869 Sun, 02 Sep 2007 03:32:26 -0600 Bill ~ As a spouse, I am grateful for a pilot's ability to compartmentalize. I would hate to think that a memory - good or bad - from their "non-flying life" could possibly get in the way of their ability to "Fly the Aircraft!". And, given the horrors that we all know are experienced in wartime, the ability to compartmentalize those horrors and "Fly the Aircraft" are nothing less than survival tactics. How else would you all be able to continue with your mission day in and day out if not for that ability? V29 ~ Don't regret telling the truth to Larry's brother. You were honest. You gave him what he was asking for. More than likely he doubted the "official" story from the get-go. If that were the case, I would be that his imagination had created a scenario that was equally as horrific as the truth, if not worse. It could possibly be that the truth you told him put an end to the wondering and he has been able to finally move on from his brother's death after all of these years (as to the reason why you've never heard from him again). And Bill, you got it right. Thank you so much for sharing them with us and reminding me never to forget that THIS war is not the only one fought by incredible men and women. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63868 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63868 Sun, 02 Sep 2007 01:35:20 -0600 Ok, I’ll assume the Huey got hit by a rocket… There could have been one heck of a fire. But, by this time I would guess there is an office report of the incident. I know rotor wing aircraft are inherently unstable. I guess it’s better left unsaid. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63866 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63866 Sun, 02 Sep 2007 00:21:48 -0600 That's horrifying, Bill. I know you've been through a lot, and had a lot of close calls... but damn. That one was just gut-wrenching to read- I can't even begin to imagine living it. love ya- and yes, you got it right. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63863 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63863 Sat, 01 Sep 2007 21:41:53 -0600 Larry and his crew went the hard way, Two-Niner. I won't tell the story here, either. To forestall inquiries, they died doing their duty, and honorably. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63861 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63861 Sat, 01 Sep 2007 17:30:18 -0600 If it's any consolation for anyone, remember that for humans, flying _is_ an un-natural act, and if they indulge in that kind of fun very much they are going to get killed from time to time, even if nobody is shooting at them. Up to now I have managed to get killed less than once, while in aerial flight. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63854 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63854 Sat, 01 Sep 2007 10:48:32 -0600 I do remember that conversation. It's still very tough to tell family the real story. Larry Moore's brother found me through the web and asked what really happened to his brother. I don't know who wrote to the family, but they were told he died in a blaze of glory, guns blazing, Stars and Stripes waving in the breeze, America and her women folk saved from the tyranny of communism. I exchanged a few emails with him dodging the question until he demanded the details. When I told him what really happened, I never heard from him again and he has never responded to any email I have sent him since. Wish I'd kept my mouth shut on that one. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63852 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63852 Sat, 01 Sep 2007 07:55:07 -0600 On thinking about this for a while, I think it's better to remember how dead comrades died, than not to remember them. Minimise the worst of the suck that way. Can't eliminate the suck, of course. I remember people, and things, which are just gone, and which I miss horribly. Some of their going I may have been somewhat involved with. Trying not to think about it sorta works, but not very well. Thinking about it can drive one nuts. Try not to drink too much (Hah! such advice from *me*!) http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63851 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63851 Sat, 01 Sep 2007 00:47:15 -0600 Thanks, Tripper. Much appreciated... Neffi - You've lived in a few horror stories yourself. Keep that motorized kite away from the wires, okay? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63849 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63849 Fri, 31 Aug 2007 21:58:54 -0600 Fly the aircraft, Chief... always the way of it, eh? Thanks for sharing, I know what it cost you. Blue skies... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63848 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63848 Fri, 31 Aug 2007 21:23:37 -0600 We will remember them. God bless. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63846 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63846 Fri, 31 Aug 2007 16:51:24 -0600 V29 -- Remember the debate last year about giving our KIAs' kids the full story -- before we realized that the "kids" were now older than we were when it all happened? Cricket -- You could *never* be accused of failing to remember prices paid... Pogue, David M -- Roger that! Grumpy -- Ain't nuthin'-- it's just a thang... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63838 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63838 Fri, 31 Aug 2007 13:10:16 -0600 BillT, first, THANK YOU, for your courage. Not just then, but NOW. You may not think of of it this way, but you have done the toughest task of your life. You have helped the whole Veterans community. Thank you, for your service to this GREAT NATION and HER VETERANS. Grumpy http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63829 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63829 Fri, 31 Aug 2007 10:50:17 -0600 Bill, this happened on the day I left country. I was getting my short, shortimer tan when summoned by Maj. B. He told me I had 3 hours to leave if I wanted a 3 day drop. They had secured a spot for me on a Caribou. I left so quickly I never properly said goodbye to anybody. It was only a few years ago that I was told of this. I have met Laurence's family. He would be very proud of them! Here's to fallen comrades; long remembered, ne'er forgotten. V29. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63826 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63826 Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:08:56 -0600 To Absent Companions........ Scouts Out... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63825 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63825 Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:05:47 -0600 You done good, Chief. I don't have anything like that, but there are a couple of faces I see some nights as well. They're never really gone as long as we remember them. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63813 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63813 Fri, 31 Aug 2007 00:31:29 -0600 BillT, I am...speechless. I am so sorry. We ask so much of our fighting men, and seldom stop to think of the terrible price. They have not been forgotten. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63811 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63811 Thu, 30 Aug 2007 23:59:15 -0600 Seems like a fine job of telling to me, Bill. I got the shudders reading and envisioning it. Thank you for adding these men to our memories. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63810 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/08/clearing_out_a.html#comment-63810 Thu, 30 Aug 2007 23:53:18 -0600