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  <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1/tag:www.thedonovan.com,2007://1.7750-</id>
  <updated>2008-12-03T12:58:51Z</updated>
  <title>Comments for Someone else you should know.</title>
  <subtitle>We&apos;re the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost.  All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT,  and KA 2003-2007</subtitle>
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  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2007://1.7750</id>
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    <link rel="service.edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/cgi-bin/mt41/mt-atom.cgi/weblog/blog_id=1/entry_id=7750" title="Someone else you should know." />
    <published>2007-07-03T11:07:14Z</published>
    <updated>2007-07-10T12:51:04Z</updated>
    <title>Someone else you should know.</title>
    <summary> Corporal Willie Apiata, New Zealand SAS. Photo courtesy the New Zealand Army. While on an early morning patrol, Apiata (then a Lance Corporal) was part of a New Zealand Special Air Service (NZSAS) Troop in Afghanistan that came under attack from about 20 enemy fighters. The troop was attacked with rocket propelled grenades, destroying one of the troop&apos;s vehicles and immobilising another. This was followed by sustained machine gun and automatic rifle fire from close range. A further rocket-propelled grenade attack blew Apiata off the bonnet of the vehicle he was stationed on. The two other personnel in the...</summary>
    <author>
      <name>The Armorer</name>
      <uri>http://www.thedonovan.com</uri>
    </author>
    
    <category term="Observations on things Military" />
    
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      <![CDATA[<p><img alt="ak07030995.jpg" src="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/historystuff/ak07030995.jpg" width="290" height="425" /></p>

<p>Corporal Willie Apiata, New Zealand SAS.</p>

<p>Photo courtesy the <strong><a href="http://www.army.mil.nz/">New Zealand Army</a></strong>.</p>

<blockquote>
While on an early morning patrol, Apiata (then a Lance Corporal) was part of a New Zealand Special Air Service (NZSAS) Troop in Afghanistan that came under attack from about 20 enemy fighters. The troop was attacked with rocket propelled grenades, destroying one of the troop's vehicles and immobilising another. This was followed by sustained machine gun and automatic rifle fire from close range.

<p>A further rocket-propelled grenade attack blew Apiata off the bonnet of the vehicle he was stationed on. The two other personnel in the vehicle were wounded by shrapnel; one of them, Corporal D, was in a serious condition. After finding what cover was available, the three soldiers found that Corporal D had life-threatening injuries and was deteriorating rapidly. Apiata assumed command of the situation.</p>

<p>The three were about 70 metres in front of the rest of the troop, so Apiata decided the only option available was to carry Corporal D back to the rest of the troop. The other soldier was ordered to make his own way to the rear.</p>

<p>In part the citation for the award reads:</p>

<p>"In total disregard of his own safety, Lance Corporal Apiata stood up and lifted his comrade bodily. He then carried him across the seventy metres of broken, rocky and fire swept ground, fully exposed in the glare of battle to heavy enemy fire and into the face of returning fire from the main Troop position. That neither he nor his colleague were hit is scarcely possible. Having delivered his wounded companion to relative shelter with the remainder of the patrol, Lance Corporal Apiata re-armed himself and rejoined the fight in counter-attack."</p>

<p>Three other SAS soldiers are also to receive bravery awards for actions during the same mission. Two received the New Zealand Gallantry Decoration and one the New Zealand Gallantry Medal.<br />
</blockquote></p>

<p>Well done, Soldier.</p>

<p>Davaid Farrar, a Kiwi blogger <strong><a href="http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/07/first_vc_for_a_new_zealander_s.html">has more</a></strong>, and focuses on Corporal Apiata's honor.</p>

<p>Thus, it falls to Murray, Castle Metalsmith, <strong><a href="http://hittingmetalwithahammer.wordpress.com/2007/07/02/cpl-willie-apiatea-vc/">to hit poor metal with a hammer to shatter its pretension and benign condescension</a></strong>.</p>

<p>I will note that Britain nor New Zealand are known for being profligate with medals.</p>

<p>Yet, both have living recipients of the Victoria Cross from Iraq and Afghanistan - in the case of Britain, two.</p>

<p>Yet we have... no living recipients of the Medal of Honor, despite our far greater numbers engaged in combat.  As the Medal is usually awarded because someone has to retrieve other people's mistakes in planning or execution, this would indicate we're fighting this war simply many orders of magnitude better than we have our others.  While there is no doubt we've been fighting very well at the tactical level, we still find ourselves, especially in the small unit/detachment arena, stuck in some very sticky situations.</p>

<p>Somehow, I suspect we're being really really really reticent to make the award - though I'm given to understand that there may actually be one in the works for award to a living recipient, in addition to at least one under consideration for a posthumous award.</p>

<p>Which brings to mind a different issue - *damn* we take a long time to process these.  I don't mind being thorough, but sometimes it makes we wonder if it isn't because we aren't spending more time trying to find a reason to downgrade it than we are ensuring it meets the criteria.</p>]]>
      
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  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2007://1.7750-comment:61919</id>
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    <title>Comment from Cricket on 2007-07-04</title>
    <author>
        <name>Cricket</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        Went there, and know a couple of the next of kin
so sent them the link.  I will let you know how it progresses from there.

Thanks...
    </content>
    <published>2007-07-05T02:14:00Z</published>
    <updated>2007-07-05T02:14:00Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2007://1.7750-comment:61902</id>
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    <title>Comment from BillT on 2007-07-03</title>
    <author>
        <name>BillT</name>
        <uri>http://www.thedonovan.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.thedonovan.com">
        <![CDATA[<em>...it makes we wonder if it isn't because we aren't spending more time trying to find a reason to downgrade it than we are ensuring it meets the criteria.</em>

Personally, I think somebody grossly overbought ARCOMS about forty years ago and they're still clearing out the warehouse. On the bright side, I only know of a single instance in which an ARCOM recommendation was downgraded.

Cricket -- Here's the <a href="http://www.archives.gov/veterans/military-service-records/get-service-records.html" rel="nofollow"><strong>best place to start</strong></a>. And halfway down the page is a link to the fire at St. Louis -- if your NCO was discharged prior to 1947, you may be in luck.]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-07-04T04:53:43Z</published>
    <updated>2007-07-04T04:53:43Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2007://1.7750-comment:61900</id>
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    <title>Comment from Murray on 2007-07-03</title>
    <author>
        <name>Murray</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        There is some speculation about the recent decoration of the four NZSAS members that they were approved for their NZ - formerly Commonwealth - decorations to prevent them receiving US ones.

Note that the NZSAS were operating under US command and were awarded a PUS and took the lions share of a dozen Bronze Stars at the same period that Apiata won his VC. The Minister of Defence claimed the bronze stars were for &quot;reconstruction work&quot;.

I&apos;ve seen shit the SAS &quot;reconstructed&quot;. Not sure what page he was reading.

Those awards received very little attention. It is impossible to underestimate Helen Clark&apos;s pathological fear and hatred of everything American. It would kill her to have HMTQ approve the wearing of any US gallantry decorations. All the more reason to do it I&apos;d say. 

The obvious high volume and intensity of combat our troops have been involved in flies in the face of government claims of &quot;peaceful rebuilding&quot; stories they sell to the NZ public to pretend we live in a &quot;benign strategic environment&quot;. To have our troops wearing US decorations would hurt her politically.

    </content>
    <published>2007-07-03T22:06:01Z</published>
    <updated>2007-07-03T22:06:01Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2007://1.7750-comment:61898</id>
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    <title>Comment from Cricket on 2007-07-03</title>
    <author>
        <name>Cricket</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        There was a fire in 1973...and the request for information is only going to tell me that and paying a pro is Out Of The Question, not to mention The Budget.  I do amatuer geneology in my spare time, helping people look up three generations; back to great grandparents.  It is fun and rewarding to do.

I am looking at this sort of from a detective POV...where else could I get the information?
What else would support the statement?  Obviously, the records of the commanders, higher ups and peers.  But was St. Louis the ONLY place they were kept?  

When the Army and the Air Corps separated, did the Air Corps records go with the Air Force?
    </content>
    <published>2007-07-03T21:08:36Z</published>
    <updated>2007-07-03T21:08:36Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2007://1.7750-comment:61889</id>
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    <title>Comment from Chuck Simmins on 2007-07-03</title>
    <author>
        <name>Chuck Simmins</name>
        <uri>http://northshorejournal.org</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://northshorejournal.org">
        If I had to guess, John, I would say that the DoD brass are leery of making a big award and having it go south on them, a la Pat Tillman. The potential recipiant has to be clean, before, during and after.

Frankly, the DSC and Navy Cross awardees are where many of the MoH&apos;s were in past conflicts. The politics around this one have made the MoH too hot to handle, I think.

I&apos;m not sure Apiata would get the MoH in our service, perhaps nothing more than a Silver Star.
    </content>
    <published>2007-07-03T19:11:10Z</published>
    <updated>2007-07-03T19:11:10Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2007://1.7750-comment:61886</id>
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    <title>Comment from Heartless Libertarian on 2007-07-03</title>
    <author>
        <name>Heartless Libertarian</name>
        <uri>http://heartlesslibertarian.blogspot.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://heartlesslibertarian.blogspot.com">
        John-is the living one you&apos;re thinking of (former) SSG David Bellavia?  And the posthumous one I assume is the kid who jumped on the grenade in the Humvee.

I&apos;ve read Bellavia&apos;s DSC (interim award) cite/MOH nomination narrative more than once, and I still wonder what the hell whomever handles these things is waiting for.

It&apos;s almost bizarre how the US Army is so profligate with non-battle awards, and yet so stingy with the awards for valor.
    </content>
    <published>2007-07-03T17:05:13Z</published>
    <updated>2007-07-03T17:05:13Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2007://1.7750-comment:61883</id>
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    <title>Comment from leavenworth centurion on 2007-07-03</title>
    <author>
        <name>leavenworth centurion</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        Actually, John, The UK has gazetted two soldiers for the Victoria Cross, one in Iraq and one in Afghanistan.  The Afghanistan award was to Corporal Bryan Budd VC of the Parachute Regiment and was, unfortunately, posthumous. Lance Corporal Johnson Beharry VC of the Princess of Wales&apos;s Royal Regiment lived to receive his Victoria Cross for actions in Iraq and continues to serve to this day.

There have, I believe, been three awards of the George Cross, one posthumous.  The George Cross is the equivilent of the Victoria Cross, but limited to acts of heroism not involving direct action with the enemy.  We do not have an award that corresponds to the George Cross.
    </content>
    <published>2007-07-03T15:38:15Z</published>
    <updated>2007-07-03T15:38:15Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2007://1.7750-comment:61881</id>
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    <title>Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2007-07-03</title>
    <author>
        <name>John of Argghhh!</name>
        <uri>http://www.thedonovan.com.</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.thedonovan.com.">
        Wolfwalker - yes, you read my ambiguous statement correctly.

Cricket - he&apos;s going to have to come up with some contemporaneous documentation to get those awards.

They usually won&apos;t make an award based on &quot;They said they would get me one.&quot; even when supported by witness statements - unless there is some documentation from the era that is supportive.

Has he requested his records from the National Archives?
    </content>
    <published>2007-07-03T14:08:44Z</published>
    <updated>2007-07-03T14:08:44Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2007://1.7750-comment:61876</id>
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    <title>Comment from Cricket on 2007-07-03</title>
    <author>
        <name>Cricket</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        I have a question and I KNOW the Armorer has been busy, but I need some help.  The Engineer and I found out about an Army Air Corps NCO
who had been cited for the Distinguished Flying Cross and the Bronze Star Medal.  He was supposed to have been awarded them, but went back home and the awards were never given.

Could you folks help out?
    </content>
    <published>2007-07-03T13:44:28Z</published>
    <updated>2007-07-03T13:44:28Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2007://1.7750-comment:61874</id>
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    <title>Comment from Damian on 2007-07-03</title>
    <author>
        <name>Damian</name>
        <uri>http://www.toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com">
        <![CDATA[<em>*damn* we take a long time to process these.</em>

You think <em>you guys</em> take a long time?  The CANSOFCOM soldiers who just received <a href="http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2007/06/shhhhh.html" rel="nofollow">their valour medals</a> from the Governor General of Canada in a private ceremony last week were decorated for actions that took place in 2005-2006 (as tight a time frame as I could get anyone to release to me).

Unless I'm mistaken, the awards were actually held up in order that <a href="http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2006/10/for-valour.html" rel="nofollow">others could be the "first" of the valour decorations</a> - so that we could show names and faces instead of having them be anonymous as the SOF awards were.

You guys are downright speedy compared to your northern cousins.]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-07-03T13:33:17Z</published>
    <updated>2007-07-03T13:33:17Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2007://1.7750-comment:61871</id>
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    <title>Comment from wolfwalker on 2007-07-03</title>
    <author>
        <name>wolfwalker</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[<i>Yet we have... no living recipients of the Medal of Honor, despite our far greater numbers engaged in combat. </i>

<a href="http://www.cmohs.org/recipients/living_recips.htm" rel="nofollow">Say what?</a>

Oh, you mean no living Medal of Honor recipients from <i>this war</i>?  In that case I might well agree with you -- I have difficulty believing that the only CMOH-worthy actions in Iraq have been fatal for the soldier(s) involved.  I also have a bit of difficulty believing that there have been only four CMOH-worthy actions in Iraq and Afghanistan at all, but that's a different matter.  ]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-07-03T12:57:12Z</published>
    <updated>2007-07-03T12:57:12Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
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