We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2007 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/06/the_conversatio.html Wed, 03 Dec 2008 13:00:45 Z Movable Type 4.12 en Copyright 2008 http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification I sent CDR Salamander's screed on the issue of piracy to my Representative, Nancy Boyda, who sits on the House Armed Services Committee. Why not? I told him that I had done so. He wrote back: Neat-O. Thanks. Methinks that it will take Congressional WTFisms. I sat in on a brief where a 4-star's JAG sat there with a straight face and defended the "..it is ok if we bluff pirates and they call us on it and we let them go. They don't have the habit of killing any of their hostages. We shouldn't endanger ANYONE by acting rashly."... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/06/the_conversatio.html http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/06/the_conversatio.html Mon, 11 Jun 2007 07:54:33 -0600 Really, I think we should bring back privateers and prize courts because that would result in less killing and devastation. If you're trying to capture something and sell it, you're going to be careful not to do any unnecessary damage to it. Boys do like to destroy things, I think that's widely known and understood, so a financial incentive to capture stuff and preserve it needs to exist. IMHO. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/06/the_conversatio.html#comment-61091 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/06/the_conversatio.html#comment-61091 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 14:07:15 -0600 Oh, Heartless? I read tell that most of the big boys signed the Declaration of Paris back in 1856, or so, but the USA didn't, which meant the CSA hadn't, either. There was some legal business afterwards, about the "Alabama Claims", and UK had to pay money to USA. M'self, I think UK shoulda told USA to FOAD. (Yeah, not the same thing.) As far as I know, it's still legal for the USA to commission privateers, and there are traditional rules and standards for that, e.g. posting a large bond against kp&r outrages and such-lik http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/06/the_conversatio.html#comment-61088 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/06/the_conversatio.html#comment-61088 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 12:55:32 -0600 I volunteer to crew a gun on any of 'em. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/06/the_conversatio.html#comment-61055 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/06/the_conversatio.html#comment-61055 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 06:30:59 -0600 HL -- I *have* flown off of ships! I worked from an LST (the USS Monmouth County, I think) off Chau Doc in 1970 during the Cambodian Excursion, I supported SEALs from Sea Float (more of a city-on-a-raft than a ship, but WTH, it had water under it instead of land -- see the Twitchy Bill photo on the Castle coffee mug), and I landed and took off from the Intrepid before she became a full-fledged museum. Never had to use arresting gear, either (Lex was soooo bummed about that). When the squids get the Q-ship cranked up, I'm there. Sank five pirate sampans in the Gulf of Thailand in 1970 and I wouldn't mind doing a repeat performance off the Horn of Africa... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/06/the_conversatio.html#comment-61053 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/06/the_conversatio.html#comment-61053 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 01:29:57 -0600 Lebed type assault hovercraft fit in a US Navy LSD? With a few SeaCobras (ever wanted to fly off a ship, Bill?) and SeaHawks spotted on the flight deck? The hovercraft and attack helos can go after the little boats, and you can use all three, plus SEALS or embarked Marines, to attack any motherships you find.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/06/the_conversatio.html#comment-61051 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/06/the_conversatio.html#comment-61051 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 21:29:38 -0600 Tim! Excellent! Is there a position for me? I will have John forward you a photo from the MilBlog conference that demonstrated that I would make an excellent model for a figurehead. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/06/the_conversatio.html#comment-61046 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/06/the_conversatio.html#comment-61046 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 17:22:27 -0600 Shipmates, Well, I'm up for commercializing the anti-piracy business. Grant me the Letters of Marque, and I guarentee you I can raise a crew and most likely the vessel and weapons. There are a huge number of very well trained greybeards sitting around waiting for something to do, and the Anti-Piracy gig sounds just the ticket. Not only that, there are still a number of greyhounds out to pasture that could be brought back for the tasks at hand with very little money and sweat. But Mark has it absolutely correct regarding the mother & chicks approach. A large vessel running laps way over the horizon and small boys bad enough to run out from her for a few days at a time on random patrol areas (or not-so-random if the intel firs). It's very doable, but like the 'mander says, you gotta WANT to get it done. I think that the gubmint might well be surprised how much support it could get for such a project. Respects, http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/06/the_conversatio.html#comment-61043 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/06/the_conversatio.html#comment-61043 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 14:49:26 -0600 They don't have the habit of killing any of their hostages. That a$$hat needs to do some research. ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/06/the_conversatio.html#comment-61039 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/06/the_conversatio.html#comment-61039 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 12:19:52 -0600 Hmmm... how's restoration of that Fletcher-class DD coming, John? Perhaps you and those guys could pull a 'White Rajah' on the Horn of Africa... Nah. You've got packing to do. Heh http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/06/the_conversatio.html#comment-61038 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/06/the_conversatio.html#comment-61038 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 11:53:31 -0600 Hey, I'm just asking the questions... you sailors can provide the answers! I specialize in taking down small countries and conventional armies, ept, or inept... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/06/the_conversatio.html#comment-61036 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/06/the_conversatio.html#comment-61036 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 11:50:17 -0600 here, in which I express some doubt as to their efficacy in modern times, my point being that Somali pirates are using small boats and crews perhaps tended by a "mothership" over the horizon from where the action is taking place. Q-shipping to zap few guys in small boats has an emotional appeal, but not much in the way of economic rationale, given that warm bodies are cheap in the area and easily replaced. Trolling the same waters over and over looking for pirates will just lead the pirates to wonder why that one ship never seems to go anywhere. My suggestion is that merchant ships stay well clear of Somali waters (240+ miles) and that some form of convoy op be set up to cover some protected sea routes in the area. In addition, the UN chartered WFP ships carrying food to the starving Somali masses (redundancy?) have armed escorts to get them safely into port. From my position, the U.S. Navy needs to get creative in acquiring some cheap but effective coastal patrol craft this sort of work because, as Salamander and I and others have been discussing over at Milblogs and our own sites, there is serious shortage of "small boys" to chase pirates- which is why a large, slow (20 knot max) amphibious ship with minimal weaponry ends up as the last line of defense after a hijacking at sea. And we don't need a $300,000,000 Littoral Combat Ship to chase guys in $900 dinghies, much less a billion dollar cruiser. We just some outside the box thinking and a plan. One more point on Q-ships - who will pay for one?]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/06/the_conversatio.html#comment-61034 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/06/the_conversatio.html#comment-61034 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 11:21:33 -0600 The only legal issue I could think of is whether of not Letters of Marque have fallen out of favor with the international law crowd. Because the Constitution still says Congress has the power to issue them. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/06/the_conversatio.html#comment-61026 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/06/the_conversatio.html#comment-61026 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 09:20:49 -0600 True enough, Damian - but that kind of thinking is what leads to the paralysis. It's the kind of thinking that gave us McClellan - who built a fine army but was loathe to use it because it might get broken. That's the sort of thing that would have to be taken into consideration when undertaking the operation. 24/7 security, etc. We're not talking about merchant crews doing this stuff as much as Blackwater-style, or national government personnel. Professional people doing it professionally. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/06/the_conversatio.html#comment-61025 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/06/the_conversatio.html#comment-61025 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 09:16:34 -0600 A commercial vessel with mini-guns on the sides would make quite a prize for the other team, now wouldn't it? Once they know it's out there, some will avoid it, some will assault it (the stupid and soon to be dead), and some will try to figure out a way to get their filthy little hands on it. God help shipping in the region if those last ones manage to shimmy up an anchor chain with a dagger between their teeth, slit a few throats, and sail some decent weaponry off to their dark harbour to lie in wait for the next unsuspecting victim. Not that fear should immobilize us, but given the fact that these baddies are in the business of stealing ships, it's worth thinking about. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/06/the_conversatio.html#comment-61021 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/06/the_conversatio.html#comment-61021 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 08:57:56 -0600 I'm sure that after a few Q-ships (presumably crewed by Blackwater types) lit up the zodiacs, trawlers, dhows etc that these human vermin use..... that this sort of activity would come to an immediate halt. Not gonna happen. Unfortunately. For one thing it would probably be very effective. We can't have that now can we? Maybe I'm being too cynical but it seems that every time something like this comes up the discussion centers on why our hands are tied. It would be nice to think someone would take appropriate action, but I just don't see it happening, I hope I'm wrong. ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/06/the_conversatio.html#comment-61018 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/06/the_conversatio.html#comment-61018 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 08:37:01 -0600