We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2007 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/supporting_the.html Wed, 03 Dec 2008 13:03:08 Z Movable Type 4.12 en Copyright 2008 http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification Bill the Rotorhead breaks radio silence: TINS. March (or thereabouts) 1970. I'd just finished an all-day and all-night Green Beanie support mission and was slouching toward my tent, hoping to grab a couple of hours' sleep before the sun rose high enough to turn my GP Medium into a reasonable approximation of a convection oven and the traffic on the street outside generated a semi-permanent dust cloud inside. If I was lucky, the malathion fogger had already made its run, so I wouldn't get chased out of the tent by the fumes. I'd been flying every night for weeks and... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/supporting_the.html http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/supporting_the.html Thu, 17 May 2007 08:38:37 -0600 intentionally kill children and all that. Go USA!]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/supporting_the.html#comment-60207 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/supporting_the.html#comment-60207 Sat, 19 May 2007 10:50:05 -0600 So you think Micheal is only talking to the pro war side. You could be right. Probably only talking to the active side too. ie bloggers etc I still think influencing voters is more important than congress. Sure congress can do more but they are highly resistant aren't they? And one petition from pro war probably gets 3 from anti. In some ways this needed to be done well before the war. Things like attitudes to the military which I myself had, and it was not at all easy for me to remove poor assumptions. On the other hand that's here perhaps it's not the same in the US. There are many more things that really need addressing because arguing to support the war at this last minute is hard with a lot of the attitudes out there. Politicians often do that. Over here they claim 'mandate'. I suppose you might be right on that (see isn't that much easier than admitting I'm wrong). Not being happy with the status quo and really who was? is not the same as wanting out even to trigger a loss. Maybe it isn't all doom and gloom. But then there's pelosi and her lipstick. It moves too often. Do you really think a win will come soon? I mean if this is a matter of lost patience time may be of the essence and it's not really true anymore that the US hasn't had any time given to them. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/supporting_the.html#comment-60164 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/supporting_the.html#comment-60164 Fri, 18 May 2007 16:08:05 -0600 I don't think it's as simple as that, Trias - this is actually a critique from the pro-war side of the pro-war side that says, if you support the war but aren't trying to influence the Congress, you are misdirecting your effort, if all you are doing is sending letters to the soldiers. My response is that the choice isn't binary. As for the sweeping generalization about the majority being against the war, nothing is that simple, though the media and the Dems in Congress are trying to spin the election and the polling that way, the issue is much more complex. I tire of politicians who decide that a narrow change in political alignment (in terms of the size of the majorities) signals some tectonic shift in support of Their Pet Issue. The voters sent a clear signal that they wanted a change, that they had lost confidence in the Republican's ability to govern. As the mixed polling results show - there is a clear majority that is not happy with how the war is going, and by obvious extension, with how it's being run, and they want a change. They are less clear that they want to just withdraw and call the whole thing off - which is how the anti-war side spins it. The bulk of the public wants it to end. And they wouldn't mind it ending with something approaching a win, but they have lost patience with the status quo. Which is not quite the way I read your comment. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/supporting_the.html#comment-60132 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/supporting_the.html#comment-60132 Fri, 18 May 2007 07:52:10 -0600 This is really just a rehash of the you can't support the troops without supporting the war concept. I believe the concept is wrong. No doubt that throws me in the usual unpopular light. Yes supporting the troops but not the war does cause dissonance but at the end of the day it's a job and a goal, not the soldier themself. A demand to move into politics is not always well received especially if the political beliefs of the person do not align with the desires expressed. Trying to influence congress is nice but I would say congress has already been influenced. Those elections already held spoke loudly of the will of America and so the damage was done. It was a pivotal moment in this war. This war in Iraq is being opposed by the majority now. That majority carried into congress and may well carry into presidency. I'm saying the point of political influence in congress has passed it's too feckin late. Influencing should have been applied to the voters before the vote. The media, our most powerful influencer, did a sterling job influencing. Doom and Gloom? Maybe. Bush has bought time it's all he could do but the hourglass will run out. Not on Democrat defeat agendas but when Bush can no longer veto. If the military wins or looses in Iraq the wider war still goes on. And there is another vote. That one is not exactly too late. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/supporting_the.html#comment-60125 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/supporting_the.html#comment-60125 Thu, 17 May 2007 21:08:08 -0600 I guess I should add that the main point I'd like to make is that support activities can have side effects which may not be immediately apparent. For example, I believe Veterans - particularly Vietnam Veterans - have become more empowered than they have been since the end of that war. Perhaps more of them will become politically active, or simply vote in larger numbers. Perhaps someone who has written a letter, and received a reply, now takes these issues more personally than before. Those people will engage others and not remain silent. They will vote in larger numbers as well. Any type of involvement is positive, and I believe it evolves into engagement. But we need more politcal engagement, faster. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/supporting_the.html#comment-60124 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/supporting_the.html#comment-60124 Thu, 17 May 2007 19:36:34 -0600 I want to thank you for all that you have done on behalf of my nephew. When you see him, please tell him he is in our prayers and that we all love him. My brother and I were in the Army in Vietnam in the 60s’. I don’t remember any organization like yours. So our family is really grateful for all that you have done. ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/supporting_the.html#comment-60122 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/supporting_the.html#comment-60122 Thu, 17 May 2007 19:04:23 -0600 An interesting thing happened this weekend. My site graphics had been missing for several days because the server that supported them was down. So, I spent the weekend updating the middle ground and soldiers angels kc. When I took down my old header URL for the image, I discovered words that I had written in the header in 2004 when I started the blog and before I was html savvy enough to put a picture there. It was a quote by TE Lawrence, "I drew these tides of men into my hands to give you freedom." And, strangely enough, just as Cmdr Salamander wrote on his blog, I was reminded then of all the sacrifice and struggle of TE Lawrence to give the Arabs their freedom so long ago and how they had squandered it in political infighting and power struggles at that table in Damascus, to end up parted into little states, governed by the imperial west simply because they could fight, but they would never stick together or imagine their survival and freedom depended on their mutual respect, defense, or some idea of equality. They were still stuck in their tribal mentality. Whatever the cause, tribalism, simple thirst for power, etc, I really did think of it on that day when I was fixing my blog, probably the same day that Cmdr Salamander wrote about the table at Damascus. I almost wrote about it, but I didn't. I didn't because I am not yet ready to give up, however I despair of the outcome. I left those words on my header and they are behind my current image. I wanted to be reminded why I started that blog in the first place. Yet, there are days that I think I can totally empathize with Lawrence, the way he must have felt, having worked tirelessly to keep these people together and fight off the Turks, sacrificed so much personally, only to see it come apart in a little room around a table in Damascus. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/supporting_the.html#comment-60121 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/supporting_the.html#comment-60121 Thu, 17 May 2007 18:03:44 -0600 John, I think you hit it, both here an in your email, pitch perfect. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/supporting_the.html#comment-60120 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/supporting_the.html#comment-60120 Thu, 17 May 2007 17:15:03 -0600 hears about it happening and thusly equate it to never happening. So what they see is all these folks supporting the troops on the front line.....while doing to stop the authoritarian erosion of support from the higher ups. Again, not saying they don't do anything, just that thanks to our wonderfully *cough* unbiased *hack* "....southern..." *clear throat* media they never hear of these items. Just the Anti-War, McChimpyBushitler rhetoric. What Michael seems to propose, and I think rightfully so I must add as I've asked the question myself, is that we get off our collective duffers and feed the anti-war left what they have been feeding us: action and reaction. Letters, as you pointed out John, telephone calls, groups, appeals, gatherings on the Hill, notices, lists of names in support, basically a counter movement to usurp the notion that the majority of America thinks we should throw our hands in the air and walk away..... .....unless of course that is precisely what the majority of America wants. Dangerous words I utter, I know, but if we can manage, as you point out, to write a letter to a soldier, but can't be bothered to write our Congressional representative, then what exactly, are we supporting? Before I get crucified at dawn I have written my reps so I am indeed playing DAT Thang here. I'm just curious as to others thinking on the subject. ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/supporting_the.html#comment-60117 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/supporting_the.html#comment-60117 Thu, 17 May 2007 16:40:38 -0600