We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2007 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html Tue, 23 Sep 2008 17:28:49 Z Movable Type 4.12 en Copyright 2008 http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification Open post for those with something to share, updated through the day. New, complete posts come in below this one. Note: If trackbacking, please acknowledge this post in your post. That's only polite. You're advertising here, we should get an ad at your place... ****************************************************************** SWWBO and I have to pack out and head to the airport for our return to the Land of Ahs, where, sadly, there have been many Dorothy's this weekend. So I'm going to toss this up here for the rest of you to fill out, leaving this picture of soldier's on patrol in Nineveh. There... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html Mon, 07 May 2007 23:15:36 -0600 Before I forget.. All in fun, yes!! No worries here. And I am a total pottymouth which is a very small part of the reason why I bonded so quickly with the person I said that to. I have the most delightful imaginary friends. If the milbloggers conference is here next year, I'll install a trapeze in the family room for the post conference dinner... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59829 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59829 Tue, 08 May 2007 16:00:14 -0600 With any luck, you could have been over ANY "male". Or under. Hmmm...exactly what kind of conference *was* this anyway????]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59809 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59809 Tue, 08 May 2007 11:33:23 -0600 There something sickeningly basal about criminal temptation to loot during a disaster which appears very widespread. You see it all the time. Iraq after the conquest, after Katrina, the LA riots and so on. Bit like taking your mum's purse after she falls down the stairs or something. I'm sure the US military (and police) has rules and they need only follow that whether civilian or military. No doubt exploiting the uniform of the police and army to conduct criminal acts is quite a no-no. I'm just glad they got caught. And it didn't happen in Iraq. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59801 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59801 Tue, 08 May 2007 09:00:59 -0600 Hey, Ry - I think we have John and Beth's votes already. We need to go lobby Andi if we want the arrangements for next year to head to the center of the country :-) http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59793 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59793 Tue, 08 May 2007 00:07:13 -0600 Well, there's still the Castle Blogshoot that's been tossed around half a dozen times. And I've got all these shooting bibs.... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59792 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59792 Mon, 07 May 2007 21:57:09 -0600 Maggie- Blackmail sounds so prejudice. I'm pretty sure it's just "red-headed hungover" mail. With any luck, you could have been over ANY "male". Or under. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59791 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59791 Mon, 07 May 2007 20:54:28 -0600 I have received a horrific email in a dastardly blackmail attempt.... Blackmail is a crime punishable by death. Or so they say. Wish I'd been able to attend the conference - I heard so much (good) about all of you. I'm very jealous.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59790 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59790 Mon, 07 May 2007 18:48:34 -0600 Gang, I'd like to go back to DC. Still stuff i want to check out, but I'm open to other venues. I just need to check for a few things before heading to Sandy Eggom or California. I'm pretty sure I cleared up those warrant thingees...... Heh... :) http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59789 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59789 Mon, 07 May 2007 18:41:10 -0600 I've done it in DC - although it's been a few years. Oh, wait. You meant the conference. (Just being enthusiastic ... heh!) Seriously - I would love to converge on KC next, because it might optimize meeting more Denizens and other fine bloggers, and because we could arrange a Castle meet as well. But I think Kat has a good point. Sandy Eggo would be wonderful as well - but I bet KC would be more cost effective ;-) http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59788 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59788 Mon, 07 May 2007 18:27:54 -0600 laced with rum http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59787 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59787 Mon, 07 May 2007 18:23:18 -0600 I have received a horrific email in a dastardly blackmail attempt. Any pics you see that are purported to be of me at the MilBlog Conference are clearly doctored. It is abundantly clear that this is the work of some criminal syndicate or terrorist group. I would not rule out Hamas, since this appears to be photoshopping along the lines of "Flat Fatima". I was a good girl alllllll night. Remember, the Armorer himself said so elsewhere in this blog. I sat, demurely in a chair, sipping a cup of Earl Grey tea. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59786 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59786 Mon, 07 May 2007 17:50:05 -0600 Yeah! Kansas City! Although, I understand doing it in DC. DoD, congress, white house, walter reed and plenty of publicity. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59785 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59785 Mon, 07 May 2007 17:38:25 -0600 I'm up for a change of venue. Heck, Kansas City - closer to everybody! http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59784 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59784 Mon, 07 May 2007 17:02:24 -0600 don't need. Nice to meet all of you that I did, regrets that I missed those I didn't. How about Sandy Eggo next year?]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59783 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59783 Mon, 07 May 2007 16:59:38 -0600 934. ART. 134. GENERAL ARTICLE Though not specifically mentioned in this chapter, all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, and crimes and offenses not capital, of which persons subject to this chapter may be guilty, shall be taken cognizance of by a general, special or summary court-martial, according to the nature and degree of the offense, and shall be punished at the discretion of that court. Emphasis mine. If the civil authority chooses to prosecute for larceny, theft, etc, whichever charges are appropriate under Kansas law, then I, as a commander, would not prefer charges under the UCMJ for the same offenses. If the civil authorities did turn them back to me with an expectation that I would deal with it (which they might well do, so that the costs associated with trial and any conviction would be borne by the Army and not the affected county, or the State) then I would still charge them for the purely Military offense of "Conduct of a nature to bring discredit to the Armed Forces of the United States." Further, depending on the circumstances of an acquittal of the larceny charges by the state, I would *still* charge them under Art. 134. Because that's the way it would be, in my command.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59781 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59781 Mon, 07 May 2007 16:28:29 -0600 Ed, I have no problem with that. If that's what the Regs read then so be it. I'm just opposed to hyping and adding simply because it happened during a very public moment. If petty theft is a ballbuster than use the nutcracker. If it isn't? Then don't reach for it to win PR brownie points. That's all I'm saying. And it sounds ike JMH is saying that a nutcracker can be gotten without fudging. Fine. I have no problem with that. Just so long as there's no fudging the system to placate the public. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59780 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59780 Mon, 07 May 2007 15:55:39 -0600 Barb (posting the same thing I was) - Milblogging's most famous and enthusiastic eccentric. And here I thought *you* were Milblogging's most famous and enthusiastic eccentric. All this time, I figgered Barb was merely famous and enthusiastic...]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59778 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59778 Mon, 07 May 2007 14:33:49 -0600 Ry - Because people, both barracks/tent mates who have to live together with little security for personal affects, and the populace that we are expected to protect as part of the support and defend the constitution clause in our oaths, theft has traditionally been considered a far worse crime within the military than in the general population. You ask any 1st Sgt and they’ll tell you that larceny in the ranks is second only to murder because it is as J.M. says, prejudicial to good order and discipline. It also destroys morale and unit cohesion. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59777 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59777 Mon, 07 May 2007 14:11:56 -0600 Ry You forget "Conduct to the prejudice of good order and discipline." Always the final entry on the list of charges. Cheers http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59775 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59775 Mon, 07 May 2007 14:03:01 -0600 don't send me to the dungeon with ry. He eats all the cheetos. Mine! Mine! Nothing but mine! And they're stale too. Rule of law before court of public opinion or PR. If petty theft has a certain punishment listed in UCMJ it should stop at that punishmnet. There's a time for worrying about media black eyes and then there's a time for doing what's right according to the law. ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59774 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59774 Mon, 07 May 2007 13:52:26 -0600 Heh...John's famous. I am just a groupie, a hanger on, a rider of the tailcoats...LOL Platonic groupie, that is, since SWWBO would murderize anyone as anything else. And here I am not even writing my best stuff. Like going to a cocktail party in your sweats. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59773 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59773 Mon, 07 May 2007 13:40:12 -0600 It's important to note that the soldiers WERE NOT on official military business - the Army didn't send them and they were described as being where they weren't supposed to be. I hope thay are first tried and convicted in civil court for their crime, and then tried by Court Martial for dereliction of duty, AWOL and whatever else the CM convening authority cann think of. We (Army - was; am; always will be) don't need this kind of press. Just sayin'. ML http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59772 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59772 Mon, 07 May 2007 13:36:26 -0600 Sorry, boys and girls. It acted like it wasn't posting, then I realized I had the wrong link to the looting story and jumped back in again to fix it. don't send me to the dungeon with ry. He eats all the cheetos. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59771 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59771 Mon, 07 May 2007 13:27:17 -0600 Tim - I loved meeting you as well, but I am *not* happy that you didn't explain about your alter ego! Cassandra - I am sorry I missed meeting you. Next year! http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59770 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59770 Mon, 07 May 2007 13:24:24 -0600 AW1Tim... *wink* http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59768 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59768 Mon, 07 May 2007 13:12:34 -0600 Gang, A pleasure to meet so many interesting Denizens. Didn't have as much time as I would like to in order to say high to everyone saturday night. I had a 4am wake-up for an early rotate back to Maine which stretched out to a very long day and later arrival home. Ah well, such things make for an interesting life, and will weave themselves into blog posts when I finally break down and get my own up and running. And fellers, the ladies who post here are far more enchanting in person than one would ever imagine. Dangerous, that....... Respects, http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59767 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59767 Mon, 07 May 2007 13:01:46 -0600 Sorry, John - Didn't realize you were trying to restore as well ;-) Ennywho - all's good now. And I agree with the sentiment so far on the looting story. Shameful story. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59766 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59766 Mon, 07 May 2007 12:48:21 -0600 At least you didn't haffta fight the idjuts on I-95 this time... Don't go there. The entire population of Northern Va. has my deepest sympathy.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59765 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59765 Mon, 07 May 2007 12:48:17 -0600 John and Maggie - hope the Castle is 'high and dry', we are flooding here in the capitol city. Re the soldiers - COURTS MARTIAL. And then some time in bad side of your post! No excuse. When I think of the fact that our Explorer Scouts and MCJROTC and CAP Cadets (most of whom have NOT raised their hands) are doing/have done better on duty during disasters, I'm appalled. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59764 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59764 Mon, 07 May 2007 12:34:43 -0600 Oh, fark! Kat wiped out the post I added for AFSis. *trudges off to re-do lost segment* http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59763 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59763 Mon, 07 May 2007 12:29:50 -0600 Re: Soldiers in uniform looting The army should NOT let the civilians try these guys. They need to be court-martialed, and that right quickly. If convicted (and the facts as reported look pretty damning), they should be given an old fashioned drumming out prior to being shipped off to Fort Leavenworth for as long as the UCMJ permits. This is disgusting. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59762 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59762 Mon, 07 May 2007 12:24:32 -0600 Thanks for the help, Barb! If you haven't seen President Bush's address to the conference, you can find it embedded in the linked article. Listen, pay attention- you'll find that Bush (and/or his speach-writers) are paying attention to us! http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59759 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59759 Mon, 07 May 2007 11:39:05 -0600 Two words: *So* Hung over. OK. That was three. How about this: *So* much fun. [groan] http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59757 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59757 Mon, 07 May 2007 11:16:52 -0600 At least you didn't haffta fight the idjuts on I-95 this time, though only Moneta's Minions - Bos. Mag. Somehow I have the feeling that Crystal City won't be the same for many moons to come. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59756 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59756 Mon, 07 May 2007 10:45:45 -0600 I wish I had opted to come back on Monday......my 8:10 pm flight was cancelled and I finally got home at 0245 this morning. I'm sensing a trend with my return from DC adventures....last year was the car accident, this year was "Night at the Airport" http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59749 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/hi_fires_06_may_1.html#comment-59749 Mon, 07 May 2007 07:41:03 -0600