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Dragon Skin body armor, not the panacea claimed?

It would appear so.

I know I'm late to this. I've been busy at work and the Castle Gnomes went on strike and I'm having to get estimates from Normals about maintenance to the gutters that keep the battlements free from standing water (which protects the ballistae from rot, donchaknow), and then there is the worrisome sapping that *someone* is doing that is causing cracking in the Castle batter. Sigh. Anyway...

Army Defends Body Armor Quality By Sgt. Sara Wood, USA American Forces Press Service


WASHINGTON, May 21, 2007 – U.S. troops operating in Iraq and Afghanistan have the best body armor in the world, and the Army is constantly looking for ways to improve force protection, the general in charge of the program told reporters here today.

“Force protection is the No. 1 priority of the U.S. Army. We value our soldiers very highly, and we do everything we can do to ensure that they have the finest in force protection as they go into the battle,” Army Brig. Gen. R. Mark Brown, Program Executive Officer Soldier, said at a Pentagon news conference.

In response to a May 17 NBC News report challenging the Army’s use of Interceptor body armor vs. the newer “Dragon Skin” armor developed by Pinnacle Armor Inc., Brown today released information about the testing that ruled out Dragon Skin a year ago.

The tests were conducted May 16 to 19, 2006, at H.P. White labs near Aberdeen Proving Ground, Md. The Pinnacle armor was subjected to the same tests Interceptor body armor goes through, first being X-rayed and analyzed and then undergoing a series of live-fire tests, Brown said. The live-fire tests included room-temperature tests, harsh environment tests, and durability and drop tests.

Of the eight Pinnacle vests tested, four of them failed the tests, with 13 rounds penetrating completely on the first or second shot, Brown said. After the first complete penetration, the vests technically failed the test, but the Army continued the testing to be fair, he said.

The Pinnacle vests also were subjected to extreme temperature variations, from minus 25 degrees Fahrenheit to 120 degrees Fahrenheit, which would be a realistic cycle if the equipment was loaded onto a plane and flown to the Middle East, Brown said. These temperature tests caused the adhesive holding the Dragon Skin’s protective discs together to fail, and the discs gathered at the bottom of the vest, leaving gaps in protection, he said.

Brown also noted that the Dragon Skin vests are significantly heavier and thicker than the Interceptor vests. Dragon Skin vests in size extra large are 47.5 pounds and 1.7 to 1.9 inches thick; the Interceptor vests in size large, which offer an equivalent coverage area, weigh 28 pounds and are 1.3 inches thick.

“Bottom line is, it does not meet Army standards,” Brown said of the Pinnacle body armor.

Brown showed reporters videos of the tests, which were supervised by the chief executive officer of Pinnacle. He also displayed the actual vests that were tested, with markers showing the penetration sites.

The Army did not initially release the information about the tests because of possible security concerns, Brown said. “We are facing a very media-savvy enemy,” he said. “They’re not only media-savvy, they are Internet savvy. … Everything that we put out into the public domain, we pretty much assume that they get. We don’t like to discuss our vulnerabilities and our counters to the vulnerabilities in the open public.”

However, after the NBC report, Army leaders felt they needed to counter any doubts in the minds of servicemembers and their families, Brown said. “Our soldiers and, more importantly, the families – the wives, the children, the parents – have to have confidence that our soldiers have the best equipment in the world,” he said.

Right now, the Army’s safety-of-use message mandates that all soldiers use Interceptor body armor, which has passed the same tests the Pinnacle armor failed, Brown said. The Army is interested in a more flexible armor, like the Pinnacle design, and if the company improves its product, it could be reconsidered, he said.

Brown stressed that the Army has more than one set of body armor for every soldier in the combat theater, and that he has all the money and support he needs to make improvements to force protection. Also, the Army is constantly working to develop new technologies that will deliver better protection.

“This is not just a matter of debate for us; this is personal,” he said, noting that many of his staff members have relatives or friends who have served or are serving in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Update - just to save people from stuffing all this into the comments...

This is what Bloodspite is talking about in his comment, in terms of the continuing controversy. I find the comments interesting. Christian Lowe writing at Defense Tech (includes a .pdf of Pinnacle's response to the Army press release above).

Let's be fair to Bloodspite - here's his email on the subject.

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMrA2SEat8k


The Army Banned the Dragon Skin BEFORE they even tested it.

The rebuttal from Neal is here.

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/003504.html

The actual side by side 3rd party test result with video is here. [It's this report that caused the Army to respond. -the Armorer]

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/003503.html

I'm not gonna say the Army is wrong.....but it sure looks that way from my seat, anyway.

Bloodspite is in Pinnacle's corner on this. I'm thinking the jury is still out on the claims. I do think Pinnacle's scorched earth approach is a dumb one to take, but that's just speaking as a soulless contractor myself.


Update: Over at Op-For, Slab "weighs" in, with commentary (lots of it) that channels what the Heartless Libertarian says in his comment to this post. Put me, for the nonce, in the camp with the two guys, Heartless and Slab, who have to wear the stuff. And given that I'd need a size XXXL, I can't imaging what the thing would freaking weigh for me.

Slab brings up an interesting point - can we be *too concerned* about force protection?

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Once again, Congress and the media have decided that "listening to the military" is advice that applies only to the White House. They want to force heavy body armor that doesn't work on our troops. But as this soldier, currently... Read More

11 Comments

Have you seen the News Test done on it? It looks like the Army may have dropped the ball big time on this
 
I'm going with what Patton said about the Ronson, erm, Sherman. Who cares if it really is the best. The people have to believe in it in a time of war. Or words to that effect. This would be different if it were 1995 and we weren't actually in a serious dust up. As it is nobody is giving Big Army a chance to quietly retreat on the issue if they are wrong---which means they'll never make a switch if they are wrong.
 
Hey SOMEBODY had to stir the flames on this one :) We haven't had a good Military Acquisition/Equipment Recommendation debate here in at least....ohh...2 or 3 days :)
 
Did anyone else read the weigh figures besides me? 47 freaking pounds?!! And that's before you add ammo, water, grenades, first aid kit, etc. And not including weapon and helmet. Then trying going on a foot patrol in 120+ heat wearing that. For a weight difference of 15-20 pounds, the protection would have to be an order of magnitude better.
 
Christian at DT also ponts out what looks like a serious flaw in the NBC lab's testing-that the DS armor section was placed in front of a FLAT clay target, which maximizes the scale overlap. How many flat people do you know? The Army's tests apparently used the same curved mock-torso they used for the ESAPI.
 
John, XXXL? Just have them slap on a set of tracks, dude. You don't need armor. http://northshorejournal.org/wp-admin/post.php?action=edit&post=4236 Excalibur fired in combat for first time
 
Umm, Gee, Chuck - at least till that thing publishes, it just takes me to your login page. Oh, and, with love, Bite Me. 8^ ) Pickin' on a disabled vet. Oh the humanity!
 
Sorry, John. Grabbed the link from the Word Press preview pane and it's not a valid link until published. Here's the link I meant: http://www.dvidshub.net/index.php?script=news/news_show.php&id=10486
 
I sent a clarification E-mail to John before I dropped dead this morning. One of things I mentioned was a torso or cylindrical test of the Dragon Scale versus the flat testing. I think the biggest blunder I saw was sending a general to a newscast regarding a subject mattter he obviously didn't know much about. How do you not know when the Military Bans something *Before* you test it? Big faux pas. Otherwise I would love to see a side by side test of the stuff on torso based targets in full conditions. That being said Hbl gets points because the stuff is still frickin heavy :)
 
It may have been covered in the extremely technical comment at DT, but just looking at the DS armor, especially when on a curved torso, wouldn't the point of greatest weakness actually be if a round were fired UPWARD into the armor, like if the firer were laying on his back on the ground? It looks like, with an impact angle like that, the bullet could actually be channeled between the scales straight to kevlar. Oh, and I just saw the DS on a History channel show about the history of body armor. They were testing it against flat clay again.
 
Not having read all your links, the weight thing is a killer. And the temperature thing. That is just almost impossible to overcome, unless there's something in those links, which I don't have time to read. Gear has to be able to withstand extremes in temperature. It just has to. Period. End of discussion.