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  <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1/tag:www.thedonovan.com,2007://1.7547-</id>
  <updated>2008-12-03T13:03:00Z</updated>
  <title>Comments for A gun-rights post.</title>
  <subtitle>We&apos;re the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost.  All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT,  and KA 2003-2007</subtitle>
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  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2007://1.7547</id>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/05/a_gunrights_pos.html" />
    <link rel="service.edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/cgi-bin/mt41/mt-atom.cgi/weblog/blog_id=1/entry_id=7547" title="A gun-rights post." />
    <published>2007-05-18T12:29:52Z</published>
    <updated>2007-05-21T12:10:10Z</updated>
    <title>A gun-rights post.</title>
    <summary>First up - this post was written by commenters, Fdcol63 and KCSteve. Steve was right, I *did* want to pull their stuff up from the comments and post &apos;em for the Googlebot. First up - Frank from this morning&apos;s H&amp;I (which I deleted to remove the sense of deja-vu): John, probably OT and you might have already seen this on Instapundit, but thought you might find this interesting if not: From: http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2007/05/chaos_gunmen_ki.php &quot;50 heavily armed men abduct 7 police: four them of them found dead, three missing, gun battles leave 20 dead. About a thousand people so far this year...</summary>
    <author>
      <name>The Armorer</name>
      <uri>http://www.thedonovan.com</uri>
    </author>
    
    <category term="Gun Rights" />
    
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      <![CDATA[<p>First up - this post was written by commenters, Fdcol63 and KCSteve.  Steve was right, I *did* want to pull their stuff up from the comments and post 'em for the Googlebot.</p>

<p>First up - Frank from this morning's H&I (which I deleted to remove the sense of deja-vu):</p>

<blockquote>
John, probably OT and you might have already seen this on Instapundit, but thought you might find this interesting if not:

<p>From:<br />
<a href="http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2007/05/chaos_gunmen_ki.php">http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2007/05/chaos_gunmen_ki.php</a></p>

<p><em>"50 heavily armed men abduct 7 police: four them of them found dead, three missing, gun battles leave 20 dead. About a thousand people so far this year shot or decapitated."</p>

<p>"Iraq? No, northern Mexico, about a hundred miles south of here. Betting is that the gang was a drug lord's entourage.</em>"</p>

<p>"And yet Mexico has strict gun laws."</blockquote></p>

<p>Next, KCSteve's bit - the Zumbo report.  Zumbo is a gun writer who writes about hunting.  He recently really pi$$ed off the "Ugly Black Rifle" community by essentially saying "No one needs one of those, you can't do any serious shooting with them anyway, get rid of 'em" or words to that effect...  </p>

<p>He was *excoriated* in the gun-owning world, however much he might actually represent one of the fissures in the gun world that the anti-gunners exploit (learning that from their bretheren in the UK).</p>

<p>This is KCSteve's contribution:</p>

<blockquote>
There's a Zumbo Update over at <a href="http://www.tednugent.com/HUNTING/forums/thread/126554.aspx" rel="nofollow">Ted Nugent's place</a>

<blockquote>
Ted, <br />
I recently completed the tactical weapons course under the direction of instructor Pat Rogers. It was a life changing event for me. The course allowed me to become familiar with the firearms, and also to understand what I hadn't realized before.....that black rifles are used and owned by people who are salt of the earth. Fifteen of us took the course, including four women, two doctors, a chef, a retired engineer and law enforcement and military folks. I have to tell you that I was overwhelmingly intimidated the first morning, and was tempted to quit. I had difficulty with the unfamiliar guns, and the course was designed in drill fashion. This was no bench rest scenario where you sat and tried to shoot as accurately as possible. Here we followed very explicit orders by the instructors and shot from sitting, kneeling, standing and prone positions. As the first day wore on, I began to feel more comfortable with the gun and shooting requirements. By the third day I didn't want to leave, and had one of the most incredible experiences of my life when I fired fully auto rifles and handguns. I made great friends among the other students and instructors, and have to tell you that I drove home from the Indiana course with an ear to ear grin. Sitting beside me in my pickup truck was a very large Elmer Fudd doll that was given to the student who screwed up the most. I don't need to explain the reasons why I was the recipient! It was all in great fun, and the outpouring of kindness from the people there was terrific. <p>
Throughout all this, since I wrote that blog in February, I learned many, many things. I want to thank you for understanding, early on, how my words indicated an ignorance about black rifles, and I want to thank you for your efforts in using my ignorance as an example in order to unite all of use who own guns, all guns, whether they're for hunting, shooting, home defense, or simply as collectors items. <p>
Rock on, bloodbrother!<p>
Jim Zumbo   </p></p></p></blockquote>
</blockquote>

<p>Lastly, I have been in communication with Representative Boyda's staff for Ms. Boyda's official stance on the issue of firearms.  They are polishing up her letter on the subject (which I have not seen) but from what I've gotten in conversation with her legislative director Doug Matties, the Armorer should find it acceptable.  We will, of course, reserve final judgement for when we read the actual document.  </p>]]>
      
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  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2007://1.7547-comment:60231</id>
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    <title>Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2007-05-20</title>
    <author>
        <name>John of Argghhh!</name>
        <uri>http://www.thedonovan.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.thedonovan.com">
        Sigh.  I only became a life member of the NRA this year, mostly because of people like you.

I&apos;ve got your point.  Guns=Bad.  Republicans=Bad.

People like me=Bad.

Okay.  Gottit.  Really.  And you aren&apos;t interested in discussing anything, your mind is made up.  So your point here is?

Got anything else besides smearing me and people like me with tired, sophomoric psychology?  If this is all you&apos;ve got, don&apos;t waste your time.

Cho didn&apos;t *have* to get his weapons blackmarket.  All he had to do was lie to a lawful dealer.  Because there is no mechanism to check the lie, unlike with the rest of the NICS check.  Because of civil libertarians coming from the left *and* the right.  

The &quot;Republicans&quot; didn&apos;t create this loophole all by their lonesomes, sitting around their campfires eating the raw warm flesh of endangered species.

The Left helped in this particular case.

And you clearly don&apos;t understand how the black market works if you think Cho couldn&apos;t have gotten any guns via that method.

All he had to do was start scoring some drugs, which, let&apos;s face it, he could have done, and then just started asking around.

He might have gotten beaten up and robbed a few times, but eventually he would have scored.

Not because drugs are &quot;gateways&quot; to guns... but because drug dealers are inter-connected, defend their turf and their product with guns, mostly obtained illegally or at least off the books, and aren&apos;t averse to making money regardless of the consequences.

You really are naive in that regard.

Like I said - if this is all you&apos;ve got, go somewhere else where it passes for reasoned discourse.
    </content>
    <published>2007-05-21T02:23:39Z</published>
    <updated>2007-05-21T02:23:39Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2007://1.7547-comment:60228</id>
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    <title>Comment from Stalin on 2007-05-20</title>
    <author>
        <name>Stalin</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[No, I don't see how someone like Cho, who went out of his way to isolate himself and alienate everyone could have had the connections to buy a black market weapon. 

More carnage, this time in Idaho:

<blockquote>Shortly after 6 a.m., three SWAT teams entered the First Presbyterian Church and found the bodies of the shooter and another man, Duke said. An assault rifle, ammunition and spent shells were found next to the gunman's corpse, he said.</blockquote>

He was probably an NRA member, as are most people who need these penis extensions...uh, I mean assault rifles.
]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-05-21T00:02:49Z</published>
    <updated>2007-05-21T00:02:49Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2007://1.7547-comment:60210</id>
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    <title>Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2007-05-19</title>
    <author>
        <name>John of Argghhh!</name>
        <uri>http://www.thedonovan.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.thedonovan.com">
        Well, I&apos;m not a Republican, but, you&apos;re welcome, Comrade.

You *really* think Cho couldn&apos;t have gotten his hands on an illegal weapon?

Heh.

And, if you *really* want to thank someone - thank the people who radically changed (vice incrementally improved) the way we treat the mentally ill in this country.

The people who made it impossible to keep tabs on people like Cho.

Hint - they weren&apos;t Republicans.

They meant well, but here you see the unintended consequences.

Is it coincidence that the statistical spike in mass killings like this lags only slightly behind the emptying of the mental hospitals?

Because weapons haven&apos;t gotten *easier* to get in that time, they&apos;ve gotten harder to get.

But there&apos;s no filter, nor, other than self-reporting, is there allowed to be any filter, that would help make it easier to keep these people away from firearms.

Thank the civil libertarians.

As is usual, the answer lies somewhere in the middle.  

I hope you feel better, having sure told me off, if inaccurately labeling me in the process.

Y&apos;know, I know quite a few gun-owing Democrats, too.

Oh, and if your comment was satire... never mind.  My satire gene is very tired these days...  8^ )

    </content>
    <published>2007-05-19T17:01:14Z</published>
    <updated>2007-05-19T17:01:14Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2007://1.7547-comment:60209</id>
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    <title>Comment from Stalin on 2007-05-19</title>
    <author>
        <name>Stalin</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        An isolated freak like Cho never could have gotten his hands on an illegal gun to kill all those people at VTech, yet he was able to buy one in a store.

Thanks Republicans!
    </content>
    <published>2007-05-19T16:16:30Z</published>
    <updated>2007-05-19T16:16:30Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
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