Comments for Sheep versus Sheepdogs. We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2010 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/sheep_versus_sh.html Sat, 24 Mar 2012 15:41:06 Z Movable Type 4.12 en Copyright 2012 http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification Sheep versus Sheepdogs. In the comments to this post yesterday, Stormy Dragon (a regular reader, but who usually only comments when I step on a nerve) took me to task over my use of the term sheep, especially in the context of the post. I suspect we're just going to agree to disagree, but I thought I should elaborate on the theme. Fuzzybear Lioness, in trying to explain her understanding of the comment, spake thusly: Unless my understanding of the sheepdog/sheep dichotomy is mistaken, the designation of sheep is not a description of mindlessness or stupidity as the word is often used. Rather,... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/sheep_versus_sh.html http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/sheep_versus_sh.html Wed, 18 Apr 2007 08:35:42 -0600 Comment from Barb on 2007-04-19 MajMike - Yer right, and mebbe missed my second comment on starting in grade school. Of course, now I have to go re-read it (for the Nth time) to check your citation ... *grin* http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/sheep_versus_sh.html#comment-59230 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/sheep_versus_sh.html#comment-59230 Thu, 19 Apr 2007 17:18:34 -0600 Comment from Cricket on 2007-04-19 Ry, it isn't that contact sports have become competitive and the spirit of play ruined by all those nasty parents...it is the fact that someone has to lose. We can't have a loser because it hurts their self esteem and leads to violence. So that reasoning goes. As a homeschooler, I get really annoyed at other homeschoolers who freak out over mandates for testing (not all states require it) because to them, a test doesn't prove anything except that the child can regurgitate facts. I disagree because testing involves whether or not they can think. There are homeschoolers who do not want their children to compete in sports but which I think would also help with those thinking skills. Children can learn to win and be gracious in victory and learn to lose and know that they can compete against themselves and do better next time. I agree with you. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/sheep_versus_sh.html#comment-59191 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/sheep_versus_sh.html#comment-59191 Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:14:23 -0600 Comment from MajMike on 2007-04-19 John: two points for the take down, now go for the pin. Barb: H&MP should start while they're still juveniles, lest the adults be the delinquents (else the disorders of the XX century that preceded the breakup of the North American republic may lead to the conflict between the Russo-Anglo-American Alliance and the Chinese Hegemony) (chapter 8 if you're looking for the citation). http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/sheep_versus_sh.html#comment-59168 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/sheep_versus_sh.html#comment-59168 Thu, 19 Apr 2007 08:42:07 -0600 Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2007-04-18 I know we've given sports a bad rap around here Who you talking about, asked the State Champion Wrestler, All State and College football player?]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/sheep_versus_sh.html#comment-59151 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/sheep_versus_sh.html#comment-59151 Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:53:06 -0600 Comment from ry on 2007-04-18 A simple solution: play contact sports. You learn to overcome fear. You learn to deal with the unexpected. It isn't being trained to charge the gun per se, but it is dealing with situations when you're pumped up on adrenaline and fear. Who's never been afraid when they stepped up to the plate, onto the gridiron, onto the parque, onto the ice, or onto the mat? Everyone always has one moment of doubt that they have to learn to overcome or learn to function in spite of? I really wouldn't be surprised that the kid who upturned the table played some sport(organzied) or was a Scout at one time or another in his life. I really wouldn't. I know we've given sports a bad rap around here, with bad parents ruining it, but sports do teach life lessons. Don't give them such short shrift. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/sheep_versus_sh.html#comment-59149 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/sheep_versus_sh.html#comment-59149 Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:59:33 -0600 Comment from Jon The Mechanic on 2007-04-18 And Heartless, it is the fact that most of the people here are either soldiers or the pillar of strength for us soldiers that we ask that question. We all know that it is better to go down fighting than to go out without making a peep. That is also why many of us are owners of firearms in one manner or another while a majority of US citizens do not have the means to protect themselves from a nutjob with a weapon. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/sheep_versus_sh.html#comment-59143 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/sheep_versus_sh.html#comment-59143 Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:28:24 -0600 Comment from Cricket on 2007-04-18 Flight or fight. We can all make that decision with the right sort of circumstances. I think men are more inclined to fight. Not that women are cowards, but until I got married and had my own offspring, I was inclined to either not get involved or leave. I think that is governed by a part of the brain...the Engineer was telling me about it when taking a company through a basic training cycle. At some point, you will be conditioned by your training to fight. So the theory/practice goes. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/sheep_versus_sh.html#comment-59138 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/sheep_versus_sh.html#comment-59138 Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:31:43 -0600 Comment from Barb on 2007-04-18 Erase and correct - Start younger and teach the first level of H&MP in grade school. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/sheep_versus_sh.html#comment-59136 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/sheep_versus_sh.html#comment-59136 Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:11:17 -0600 Comment from Barb on 2007-04-18 Hear, Hear! Let's see a course in 'History and Moral Philosophy' appear on college campuses! http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/sheep_versus_sh.html#comment-59135 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/sheep_versus_sh.html#comment-59135 Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:04:30 -0600 Comment from NevadaDailySteve on 2007-04-18 Ok, here I go again. Heartless Libertarian you said: "Why didn't somebody grab their sack and do something?" I would say that the Holocaust survivor, Professor Liviu Librescu, that gave his life to protect his students DID do something. But to answer your question you have to remember that you have been trained to respond to gunfire and the students and teachers at a college, or at least the vast majority, have not. For many people it is disorienting in the extreme to suddenly be in the presence of gunfire. Also people have been told for the longest time to let the authorities handle such situations. The general populace has been told to be sheep, and not just sheep but placid sheep, even in the presence of a gun-toting madman. "Go along, don't make any threatening moves, placate them, do what they say." In addition disorientation can sideline someone long enough to be the difference. By the time you are ready to do something it is too late. You're right Heartless, we need to let people know their life is in their hands. If I ran a school system students would learn civics, not this multi-culti BS that they spoon feed kids these days. Civics should teach a citizen responsibilities, not rights, duties, not privileges. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/sheep_versus_sh.html#comment-59133 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/sheep_versus_sh.html#comment-59133 Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:36:41 -0600 Comment from Barb on 2007-04-18 not trying. We are all going to die sometime, so to borrow from my friend MCart - it's not a matter of when or where, but HOW.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/sheep_versus_sh.html#comment-59119 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/sheep_versus_sh.html#comment-59119 Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:11:50 -0600 Comment from Heartless Libertarian on 2007-04-18 my post last night:
being a soldier, the folks I work with are a bit different that the folks most people work with. And where I work, the universal reaction was "Why didn't somebody grab their sack and do something?" After the first couple of classrooms, they had to have known what has happening. There had to have been rooms with more than one male-I won't say man-in them. Why didn't they gang up and go after him. He might have gotten one or two, but not all of them. And personally, I'd rather go out shot in the face reaching for my killer's throat than shot in the back running away. Or with my own bullet in my brain because I could have done something and didn't.
]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/sheep_versus_sh.html#comment-59116 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/sheep_versus_sh.html#comment-59116 Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:59:59 -0600 Comment from AFSister on 2007-04-18 There are times when I'm a sheep, and times I'm a sheepdog... but every time I've been in the sheepdog role, it felt damn good to stand up and DO something. Much better than just letting bad things happen around you, without intervening at all, no matter how frightened I may have been at the time. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/sheep_versus_sh.html#comment-59107 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/sheep_versus_sh.html#comment-59107 Wed, 18 Apr 2007 09:32:47 -0600