Comments for H&I* Fires, 13 APR 2007 We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2007 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/hi_fires_13_apr.html Tue, 23 Sep 2008 17:52:31 Z Movable Type 4.12 en Copyright 2008 http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification H&I* Fires, 13 APR 2007 Open post for those with something to share, updated through the day. New, complete posts come in below this one. Note: If trackbacking, please acknowledge this post in your post. That's only polite. You're advertising here, we should get an ad at your place... ***************************** Chicken Soup for BCR's soul. Grrls are building booty-kicking robots. -- Chicken Soup for the Armorer's soul: another artillery rocket being tested. -- Blatantly stolen from Warhistorian: Nagl, he of the Soup With a Knife fame, says victory will cost more Servicemen their lives. Unfortunately, victory always costs people their lives, as does ambivalence and... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/hi_fires_13_apr.html http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/hi_fires_13_apr.html Fri, 13 Apr 2007 23:29:47 -0600 Comment from Justthisguy on 2007-04-14 That's "...having been a Marine.", dammit! This thing truncates out the last character, or two! ......(that's some periods to get past the bug, don't bother to read thi . http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/hi_fires_13_apr.html#comment-58908 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/hi_fires_13_apr.html#comment-58908 Sat, 14 Apr 2007 01:55:08 -0600 Comment from Justthisguy on 2007-04-14 Ah, yes, Chief, when there is metal in the air, any prudent person gets behind something *thick* whether he is a participant in the games or not. Thick and dense is even better. I don't think there ain't nohow no thick dense parts of any hellaflopper ever built. If you ever get to Heaven, you be sure and go visit Carborundum, or at least have a look in at the padded cell they have to keep him in these eons. They might haul you up on charges for violating the CCDJ (Celestial Code of Divine Justice) for Abuse of Guardian Angel Services. Don't worry too much, I'll put in a word with my Uncle George. He's a cop up there, having been a Marin http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/hi_fires_13_apr.html#comment-58907 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/hi_fires_13_apr.html#comment-58907 Sat, 14 Apr 2007 01:48:33 -0600 Comment from Justthisguy on 2007-04-14 I wonder if liquid-cooled armor is next. Sorta like the Apollo pressure-suit underwear. It gets right hot in Mesopotamia sometimes, from what I've read. I mind H. Beam Piper, quoting Shakespeare about " A rich armour, that scalds with safety." http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/hi_fires_13_apr.html#comment-58906 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/hi_fires_13_apr.html#comment-58906 Sat, 14 Apr 2007 01:33:45 -0600 Comment from BillT on 2007-04-13 It looks to me like it would be a royal PITA if you're trying to shoot in the prone position. Yup. But rotating the firing portion of your bod so that your LOS is perpendicular to your spine should stick the extra chunk over your shoulder instead of into the nape of your neck. Kind of embarassing if you're trying to present a minimum frontal area toward the enemy, though it'd be my position of choice when shooting something with a decent cyclic rate of fire from behind a nice, solid building. ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/hi_fires_13_apr.html#comment-58893 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/hi_fires_13_apr.html#comment-58893 Fri, 13 Apr 2007 20:49:01 -0600 Comment from Heartless Libertarian on 2007-04-13 One thing I don't like about the new armor, at least from looking at the pictures I've seen, is the piece on the back of the head, between the helmet and the collar piece. It looks to me like it would be a royal PITA if you're trying to shoot in the prone position. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/hi_fires_13_apr.html#comment-58891 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/hi_fires_13_apr.html#comment-58891 Fri, 13 Apr 2007 20:32:37 -0600 Comment from kat-missouri on 2007-04-13 As for the "dragon" armor, it has pluses and minuses. It's plus is that overlapping discs provide some additional security and are less likely to "break" completely. another plus is that it does allow for bending in ways that the straight armor plating doesn't. It is also been considered easier to remove and put on. Because it is flexible and overlapping, when it is hit by a bullet, the pressure is absorbed by a wider area, thus dissipating the power of a projectile and decreasing the ability to penetrate the armor (unlike plate armor which can shatter if hit at a specific rate of speed or range). However, because it is closer to the body and conforms, blunt force trauma is more of an issue, despite claims otherwise and it will not protect you any better in a knive fight. The minuses are a few more: heavier than regular armor due to the number of discs and overlapping coverage; the "dragon skin" plates are triangular and do not provide as wide a coverage area in the front and back though they were some of the first to offer additional armor on the sides and for the lower back; while it will stop a 7.62mm bullet, in explosive situations, the discs can separate and become part of the shrapnel. It is also quite a bit more expensive than the "plate" armor because the many ceramic discs (costly to make compared to "plate") and have to be hand sewn into the armor, also more costly. Replacing it is more costly. None of this is "new" in terms of "plate" armor v. "bar" or "chain" armor. medieval armorers had to take these trade offs as well. though flexible, chain mail armor could not deflect nor depreciate blunt force trauma from such weapons like maces or war hammers and when bigger and better arrow heads and bows were implemented, the chain and bar armor could be penetrated, taking pieces of the armor with it. So, while they might have lived from the actual arrow strike, the ensuing infections and other muscle/internal organ damage from the "shrapnel" created could cause infections and other egregious non-recoverable wounds. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/hi_fires_13_apr.html#comment-58888 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/hi_fires_13_apr.html#comment-58888 Fri, 13 Apr 2007 19:43:50 -0600 Comment from kat-missouri on 2007-04-13 I'm glad to see someone paid attention to my ideas about body armor. Particularly about making it "cinched" at the waist to carry the weight and making it adjustable like Roman armor. You know, my three posts on that still get hit for "comparisons". LOL Now if I could only prove that it was my idea and not great minds thinking alike, I would be filthy rich right now. ;) http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/hi_fires_13_apr.html#comment-58887 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/hi_fires_13_apr.html#comment-58887 Fri, 13 Apr 2007 19:13:07 -0600 Comment from ry on 2007-04-13 Tankerswife, yup, it's been a minor controversy. The folks over at Col Hackworth's place have been all over it. Soldiers for the truth. It's been a two year saga. I know nothing about any of the particulars, but it's been something that's been fought over for a while. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/hi_fires_13_apr.html#comment-58882 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/hi_fires_13_apr.html#comment-58882 Fri, 13 Apr 2007 15:29:12 -0600 Comment from tankerswife on 2007-04-13 Speaking of body armor, has anyone heard of the "dragon" body armor? I saw one of those shows on the military channel where the guy was testing out whatever the "new" or "improved" thingy is out. In this episode, they were testing out this new type of armor called Dragon Armor, I think. Anyone heard of it? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/hi_fires_13_apr.html#comment-58881 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/hi_fires_13_apr.html#comment-58881 Fri, 13 Apr 2007 15:19:38 -0600 Comment from AFSister on 2007-04-13 Happy Triskaidekaphobia Day! (SOMEONE around here likes the number 13 and thinks it to be his lucky number. Someone ELSE around here is having a really crappy 12th AND 13th and isn't inclined to agree with any GOOD luck associated with 13.) http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/hi_fires_13_apr.html#comment-58876 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/hi_fires_13_apr.html#comment-58876 Fri, 13 Apr 2007 14:30:43 -0600 Comment from kat-missouri on 2007-04-13 Unlike the current, front-opening Interceptor vest, the new design is side-opening and features a cummerbund waist fastener so the weight of the vest rides on the lower torso rather than on the shoulders. “Load distribution is the key,” said Lt. Col. Robert Myles, PEO Soldier’s product manager for soldier survivability. “The cummerbund really helps on the load distribution — that is new.” I don't want to, you know, blow my own horn or anything, but I do wonder if anyone wants to hire me since I said to do this sometime ago. and I said this:
In addition, the front and back plates can be adjusted up or down four inches to better conform to the body, Myles said. Designers had input from male and female soldiers to account for all body types, he said
Right here, here, and here Glad somebody took my advice seriously. ;)]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/hi_fires_13_apr.html#comment-58875 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/hi_fires_13_apr.html#comment-58875 Fri, 13 Apr 2007 14:20:07 -0600 Comment from lex on 2007-04-13 Find, fix and finish. Ah, well - two out of three gets you into the hall of fame for MLB. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/hi_fires_13_apr.html#comment-58874 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/hi_fires_13_apr.html#comment-58874 Fri, 13 Apr 2007 14:10:09 -0600 Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2007-04-13 Project Valour-IT around here.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/hi_fires_13_apr.html#comment-58855 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/hi_fires_13_apr.html#comment-58855 Fri, 13 Apr 2007 09:03:04 -0600 Comment from Mike L on 2007-04-13 The great thing about our new body armor is that it works. The disturbing thing is, well, that it works. America is seeing and will continue to see many more amputees than in the past because our body armor is saving the lives of those who would have died from the same attacks in past conflicts. That is why DoD is at the cutting edge of robotic prosthetics and we need to continue to figure out ways to fully incorporate our walking wounded back into our society. I think part of the problem we're having in America stems from the visual reminders of the cost of war. The elite (Blue Bloods), rather than owning up to the fact that someone else is paying their debt, are calling for an end to the conflict so they don't have to be so often reminded of their social responsibility and failure. God bless our troops. Never forget. ML http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/hi_fires_13_apr.html#comment-58854 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/04/hi_fires_13_apr.html#comment-58854 Fri, 13 Apr 2007 08:55:14 -0600