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H&I* Fires, 11 APR 2007

April 11, 2007 | | Comments (12)

Open post for those with something to share, updated through the day. New, complete posts come in below this one. Note: If trackbacking, please acknowledge this post in your post. That's only polite.

You're advertising here, we should get an ad at your place...

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This is a bit disconcerting. DSP Satellites See Aggressive New Chinese Missile Testing.
--ry(h/t to my buddy Roman)
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I know I linked to this in the past already, but the posts for Monday and Tuesday are simply worthy of another link: Kent's Imperative.
--ry
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The Chief of Staff is retired! Long serve the Chief of Staff! Hmmm. Somehow that just doesn't work well as that whole King/Queen thingy, does it? -the Armorer

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1SG Keith sends along this site with a video of AF people going to Alaska to monitor an ABM launch. Worth it just for the purty pictures aspect - but might be tedious is you're coming here dial-up. -the Armorer

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Just because I can, I want to , and because *I* think it's funny.
In Techography World Domination Headquarters we discovered something shocking!

And because I like guns, and there are numerous gun bunnies, and guns...and bunnies....here...what do you guys think about the whole M4/HK416 fiasco?

I'm decidedly in the HK camp myself mainly because I've never truly liked the M16/M4 series with one caveat I will give it. It's stupid proven when it comes to aiming and firing.

Ever wondered where Slick Willie is from? My friend Matt of Overtaken by Events slips down the road to give you an exclusive in to the town that was home to..you know who. And it definitely explains some things!
- BloodSpite


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The recent DoD alert for the National Guard hit close to home among the Castle's extended family. AWTM's husband's unit is on the list. How does a wife with two young children respond when she learns her husband maybe going to war for a second time? Like this (the comments by fellow military wives are must reads).

Fred Thompson may be testing the waters (posted by BS for FBL - updated by Kat because it's not Frank, it's Fred)
- FbL

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All over the news, big gun fight in Baghdad. First hand account from Iraq the Model.

Speaking of Iraq, April 9, Iraq liberation day, Al Sadr staged a protest demanding US forces leave. I had disagreed with several big bloggers that al Sadr was "gone" from the Iraqi scene. Turns out that , while he's not gone, it may not have been as big as many reported. (Kind of reminds me of the anti-whatever protest March 17 in DC). Gen. Petraeus wrote a letter hitting key points on the subject. (h/t Mudville Gazette) Still, you cannot disregard Sadr or the Iranian connection.

Here's something else you might have missed, since there was no major media coverage, thousands of Iraqis protested on Saturday, April 7 against sectarian violence. Apparently, that is not "news" even though most of this country thinks all Iraqis are Sunni or Shia and never the twain shall meet. Speaking of "missing", in case you need a reminder that everything is not all bombs and booby traps, Patrick Lasswell in a souk in Kurdish Iraq.

Finally, some continuing thoughts on Crime and Counterinsurgency (me pretending I can give pointers to the guys at Small Wars Journal).

[that's all folks!] Kat

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Leading-edge stupid, brought to you by the Liberal Party of Canada's defence critic, Denis Coderre. I would be hard-pressed to think of a single point of value this cretin has brought to the national dialogue on defence. - Damian

A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

*Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs (oops, can't call 'em UAVs anymore - they're now Unmanned Aerial Systems... some Colonel got his Legion of Merit for that change...), er, um UAS's we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

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12 Comments

By sandman6actual on April 11, 2007 9:59 AM
WooHOO!!!!! I'm first!!! Having never fired the HK416, my allegiance goes solely to the M4 (*which, coincidentally, is my weapon right now*), but having shot the H&K MP5SD, I have to say that if the 416 is anything like that, we might have a problem on our hands.
 
By John of Argghhh! on April 11, 2007 10:00 AM
Well, since I've never been a fan of the M16 and its derivatives as a battle rifle (though I'm still considering getting SWWBO an M4-clone) I'm not unbiased here. The HK416 is an improvement, and could be done by just buying uppers - but I also understand the Army, looking to the outyears, wanting to skip this generation and move to the next, especially in the immediate budget environment. The question is, can we get to "Every Soldier with a Tank/Artillery Piece/Infantry rifle in a reasonable timeline... Keep your weapons clean, boys and girls.
 
By John of Argghhh! on April 11, 2007 10:06 AM
Sandman, could you elaborate on your criticism of the MP5? Bear in mind - the locking systems for the MP5 and HK416 are different - the MP5 uses the roller-bearing locking system, while the 416 uses a rotating bolt. The improvement in the 416 is the use of a short-stroke piston to cycle the bolt (like the SKS/AK system) vice direct gas impingement - thus reducing fouling in the receiver that is characteristic of the M16 system.
 
By Confederate Yankee on April 11, 2007 10:19 AM
I'm not a fan of the M4, and the HK 416 is not enough of an improvement, in my opinion. While it is far more reliable, to be sure, it is still hampered by firing ammunition in a caliber designed to kill woodchucks, not men, and at reduced velocities at that. As a result, terrorists are taking multiple hits, and are still capable of continuing combat. This was the reason the Army began developing the 6.8 SPC after Mogadishu, and while it is certainly a big step up from the 5.56, it is still designed as a shorter range assault rifle cartridge, and that doesn't bode well for other weapons that would have to use the new common round as well. There happens to be a far superior solution based upon what I've read, and that is the 6.5 Grendal. It will fit weapons designed for the 5.56 round, and it is extremely accurate and hard-hitting at range; beyond 600 yards, it has more knock-down than 7.62 NATO. This gives us the possibility of abandoning the 5.56 and 7.62 rounds in favor of one caliber to be used in all assault rifles, machine guns, and sniper weapons systems. Sounds like a smart idea to me. I even have a candidate to replace the M4 upper based on something I read in the Shotgun News. The Patriot Ordnance P416 is similar in concept to the HK system, claims to require no oil or lube at all, and is apparently a bit more simple, to boot. If they make it in a 6.5 Grendal chambering, we might be looking at the best possible evolution of the M16/M4 platform yet.
 
By BloodSpite on April 11, 2007 10:20 AM
I haven't used the 416 either, but like sandman I have used the HKMP5 among other goodies from their fine establishment. The biggest plus I see is the gas piston operation. Instead of having redirection it focus's the gas as I understand it, using it as a inertia additive instead of a blow back which like John pointed out sends debris and other wonderful chamber clogging additives in to your receiver, chamber and firing pin operations. No to mention with our ever changing AO for the military services (especially the Army IMHO) the environment (lets face it...if it ain't rainin' it ain't trainin') having a weapon that can adapt to said situations and scenario's versus having the soldier compensate would be a nice change. On the Fred Thompson bit I refer to Conservative UAW Guys take on the most tasteless campaign bid ever regarding Edwards.
 
By jim b on April 11, 2007 11:22 AM
The M-16 family has so many birthdefects, that it is unfixable. That is a given, starting with it's unacceptable cartridge... yea yea a .22 short would kill you too over time. The adoption of that Poodleshooter was from the minute it happened, proof positive to me that the US Army had given up hope of hitting anything with one round... given the sights and the lever on the side for setting it on sprinkle. There are more than enought facts to prove what a hunk of junk it is. The really disturbing question is why doesn't the Army replace that POS. There is no excuse for that. Not money .. not time .. not there is nothing good enough .. yada yada yada. We all say the hurry with which body armor was addressed, up armored Hummers, extra armor for M1 tanks etc ... and the poodleshooters just laid in the sun and bloated. So I am forced to ask, "Why does the Army want a rifle at all? They place so little importance on them."
 
By Pogue on April 11, 2007 1:53 PM
I haven't played with the 416, so I can't comment there... The MP-5 is sexy and loads of fun to shoot, but unless you need a supressor for some reason I would rather have a 12 gauge pump (an 870 to be specific, but there are others I'd be equally happy with.) The M-16 family can be reasonably reliable provided it's cleaned and lubricated properly. The Army does a pi$$ poor job of training in those area's to begin with, and while FM 3.22-9 is getting better, it's approach to immediate action and remedial action is terrible. (Strangely enough, I'm running the range for our unit this weekend and we'll be doing malfuntion training on the range as well as some position work other than prone (un)supported...) The mouse gun is pretty reliable when it's taken care of, but finicky when it's not. The only thing good that can be said about the 5.56mm cartridge is that it suckered the Soviet Union into the 5.45mm round. There's a lot of promise in the 6.5/6.8 mm cartridge world, but the M16 has been in service longer than any other rifle in US history. It's time to quit putting lipstick on that pig and move on.
 
By John of Argghhh! on April 11, 2007 2:16 PM
Heh. Here, Jim, have a Scoresby! Not kind to PEO-Soldier and their forbears, is our Jim.
 
By MajMike on April 11, 2007 2:33 PM
gimme both an M14 and a .45 and be done with it. (and not for nothing, piddling over anything smaller than 105mm is mere piddling....)
 
By sandman6actual on April 11, 2007 2:48 PM
John, No criticism of the MP5 will EVER cross my lips, that is easily the best weapon system I have ever experienced, next to my .303 Enfield I use for deer hunting. What I was saying is that if the 416 is anything as good as the MP5, it could (*possibly*) sound the death knell for the M4. I also have to agree with Confederate, but having yet to shoot the 6.5, I have to defer to what I've heard about it, and all the things I've heard are good. Pogue: Mossberg 500's are great, but I like the Remington 870 Express.....my own little foible, I guess. I just wish my Dad would hurry up and relent....I still want his Ithaca over and under.
 
By Justthisguy on April 11, 2007 7:23 PM
Well, *some* of us have been saying for about a hundred years now, that a cartridge shooting a bullet of a diameter a little less than 7 millimeters, is at the optimum sweet spot for smokeless powder rifles, considering weight of ammo, terminal ballistics, strength of weapons, range, and cetera usw. The Brits were just about to do it in 1914 when OTBEed, we were about to do it in the 30s with the original Pederson cartridge the Garand was agonna use, which was nixed by Doug McArthur (rightly so I think) because we had all of that 30-06 stuff lying around. I think I recall reading in "Cartridges of the World" that they had to reduce charge/bullet weight in the 30-06 to make the Garand work right, but saved the full-load bad ones for the machine guns. I may be a crank on this subject, but am in good company with all of those rational ordnance guys for a century since.
 
By Rivrdog on April 12, 2007 11:34 AM
There's a reason why the hiring of prostitutes and the purchase of military hardware is referred to by the same word: procurement. The reason is that both actions involve a severe corruption of logic and morality.
 
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