*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs (oops, can't call 'em UAVs anymore - they're now Unmanned Aerial Systems... some Colonel got his Legion of Merit for that change...), er, um UAS's we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

� Secure this line!

---

I Miss My War...

That story is one that HAD to be written by someone who has been there and could put the mindset of so many into words that may be able to be understood by the masses.

Proud of what he did, and at the same time he years to return, because he feels that in his home and civilian life, he is no longer "alive".

I am sending this to some people who haven't been there, in hopes that it may open their eyes a little.

posted by Jon The Mechanic on March 24, 2007 7:06 PM

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Jon - Have them read it twice, because they'll be too busy with their preconceptions to absorb it on first reading.

posted by BillT on March 25, 2007 10:59 PM

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� Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs (oops, can't call 'em UAVs anymore - they're now Unmanned Aerial Systems... some Colonel got his Legion of Merit for that change...), er, um UAS's we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

� Secure this line!

---

Just the subtitles are worth the trip over to Smash!

Everything I really needed to know about radicalism, I learned from Monty Python

posted by Maggie on March 23, 2007 9:00 AM

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I'm not sure how awards of that nature work exactly, but if he was medevaced stateside and his unit (and thus chain of command) was still in country, I'm sure that'll slow things up a bit.

If the unit is who I think it is, they just got back around December or so.

Still, 9 months is excessive.

posted by Heartless Libertarian on March 23, 2007 10:40 AM

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Back when Dad was earning his 7 Purple Hearts, the medical people did the paperwork, and it was automatic - hence Bill's comment about "waking up in the hospital with a PH pinned to your pillow."

posted by John of Argghhh! on March 23, 2007 11:21 AM

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Last two days:

Yesterday, we took the metro to Arlington, walked to the Tomb of the Unknown soldier and waited to see a changing of the guard and a wreath laying ceremony. Was, as always, moving, inspiring, and somber. The weather was beautiful, it could not have been a better day. We also walked around a bit, reading tombstones, talking about the significance of the place, etc. Also, and much more moving, we stumbled onto a Faces of the Fallen display inside the Women's Military Service museum. There are arrayed along the arched wall hundresd of small portraits of military people who have died since 9/11 in OEF and OIF, as well as other place, I think. The portraits are about 8x6 inches, and are painted by a number of different artists, but the whole place is just astonishing. The display ends in 2004 sometime, so it does not include everyone from then until now, but even so, it is an amazingly tender and moving testament to the people who are fighting this war. Famous names are there, as are the much more numerous non-famous. I found Sheehan there, with a note from his mother, what a shame she has brought such dishonor to the name he wears. He will never be remembered as the person he was, but as the son of the nutcase antiwar loser who traded his sacrifice for fleeting notoriety.... But you had to be reading the portrait plaques to find that one, because all of them were honored in different but equal ways. Pine cones, candy pennies, stick on stars, notes, letters, other things all were scattered about. I've pictures, I'll try to post some when I get back..

From there, we walked to the Lincoln Memorial, thence to Vietnam Memorial. I had thought I was over that, heh, I was, but not all the way, I guess. Explaining it to my daughter was hard. Thence to the Korean War memorial, still interesting (but there were a great many Asians there, mostly Korean, I think, and it wasn't just that I was looking)... Thence to the WWII memorial, and then to the Whitehouse front and back. Bush or some other big wig exited while we were at the front fence... Motorcycles appeared, the gates opened, they roared off, followed by limos' black SUVs, etc.. Quite a convoy, headed North in a hurry. Could have been anyone, but the number of cops in the vicinity (inside and outside the fence) increased like a rising tide just before the motorcade took off. Talk about an opsec footprint.

Hailed a cab (my daughter was just tickled stupid that it really works like it does on TV) back to the hotel, worn out. Ordered Chinese, which was GREAT (Chinatown is 2 blocks from here)...

Today, walked 7-8 blocks to the Museum of Natural History. Was great! Saw Lions 3D at Imax which was mediocre, and of course the best display was closed until late 2008 (NO blue whale or oceans stuff!!), but the dinosaurs were cool. The hope diamond looked smudged and dirty, a lot of the interactive displays were inoperable, and there is some remodeling going on, but even so, overall it was great!! There are two photo galleries that just have to be seen to be believed. No words could do these photos justice; they were so amazing I was nearly in tears with both envy and awe. One gallery is nature art contest winners, the other is devoted to a fellow who uses a flatbed scanner (without a lid) to create digital images of all sorts of things. I was floored by the beauty of it all. Just stunned. The trip here was worth it for this alone, if nothing else was any good, and certainly that hasn't been the case. If you get to this area, you must see these photos.

After, walked back to the hotel, past the Justice Department (looks like it's under siege) and the FBI building, which also looks under siege (with one lone sign outside that said Public Tours CLOSED). Can't imagine why. Ate leftover Chinese food for dinner, then took the bus (The Circulator Line, it's an excellent value, clean, neat, on time!) to Georgetown for a quick walking tour of the main street. Of course it's Friday, so the circus was complete. People of every nationality, language, dress style, and age wandering among the stores, restaurants, and upscale shops. Bought some Godiva Chocolates by the piece (that felt decadent), ate some NY pizza, and ended with coffee... Bus back, and now it's time to pack so I can go back to boring ol' Texas tomorrow. Of course I could use some boring for a bit. 3 weeks away from home is a bit much for me...

Oh yeah, the Post Office announced this week that it will be placing around 400 R2D2-painted mailboxes around the country this month in prep for a series of stamps. I've seen three of them in the past two days, one by the NPR building, one in front of the Daughters of the American Revolution building (west of the Whitehouse), and one in Georgetown. That doesn't leave many for the rest of us, does it... Maybe it was just 400 in the DC area? Either way, they look cool. Got pics of those too.

And that's it for now. I hope to get a few picture galleries posted within a week or two...

V/R

posted by SangerM on March 23, 2007 9:45 PM

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� Dismissed, Soldier!

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John,

I share your feelings, as my mother has smoked since she was 15. She grew up in Havana - pronounced by them as "HAY-vana" - FL, where shade tobacco was still king. Worked many summers stringing tobacco to earn money for her school clothes.

I worry about her health, especially because she is a breast cancer survivor since 1982. Unfortunately, no amount of pleading, begging, debating, or anything has worked. She's also what I call a "militant" (selfish?) smoker who's so focused on her own "right" to smoke that she disregards the rights of others to breathe non-polluted air, and disregards all the evidence about links between smoking and health.

"They don't know what causes cancer," she says in a raspy voice, as she scowls and flicks ashes from the tip of her cig, while whispy trails of grey-white vapor stream from her nostrils.

My dad finally got tired of hacking up phlegm about 25 years ago, and stopped cold turkey. Unfortunately, my mother has neither the will-power nor the will to do so. Nicotine is an intense addiction.

I fear that someday, I will go through what you're now going through.

posted by fdcol63 on March 23, 2007 8:30 AM

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You are right it is a choice.....and I choose to smoke. That does not mean I don't love my family or does it mean I want them to go thru what you went thru. I am a nurse who works on Telemetry unit. I see what smoking does to people everyday. And I see what it does to their families. I watched what smoking and drinking and basically not taking care of yourself did to my Dad a couple years ago. It was hard but he lived his life the way he wanted to until the very end, with no apologies or regrets and that's exactly what i plan to do.

posted by Monte Turner on March 23, 2007 9:02 AM

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Oh honey, what to say? She couldn't stop. In some ways it is a choice, but in some ways, it wasn't. I smoked for a very short time around the age of 17 and probably never inhaled (just thought it looked cool). I quit. It was easy, never having inhaled. But in my present job (home oxygen supplier), I see day in and day out that for some it is not a choice.
My mother is 68 and can't stop. She's tried everything and she is not stupid. Your mother's smoking probably closely paralleled my mother's experience. When they started, probably in the 40s or 50s, no one was touting the dangers. Hell, it was promoted as a way to curb your appetite. That first cigarette was the only time for either of them that it was a choice. I guarentee you that first cigarette, that last time either of them had a choice, they didn't know what was coming. Then, when the studies all came out, the true addicts were revealed. It was too late. It was too late for your mother, for my mother and for millions of others. They were addicts. Your mother was one. My mother is one. My dad was not. I was not. My grandmother was not. Your mother finally stopped when they put the cannula under her nose. Some people can't stop even then. I have had to take oxygen out of people's homes because they would not stop. We have had two patients with house fires (one the patient died, the other the patient was hospitalized with burns) because they could not stop.
If someone can stop, they should. If someone needs help stopping, they should be helped. But if they can't, there should be acceptance.

posted by Maggie on March 23, 2007 9:19 AM

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You're right, John. Been there, done that with my grandpa... I will never smoke, and with God as my witness, I will do everything within my power to make sure that my boys don't either.

posted by AFSister on March 23, 2007 9:28 AM

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Guys - I got all that. And I hope you don't think, Monte, that I was suggesting you don't love your family by my phrasing. I'm sure you do. But that doesn't mean you can't use love for your family as the incentive to quit.

I'm not going to turn this place into anti-smoking central. I'm not going on a crusade.

But I am making a point that if you lose the cancer lottery - it's not just you that pays the price.

Maggie - I hear that. I understand that. And what you are saying describes my mother, as does what Frank said about his mother.

Mom said she couldn't quit.

But she quit cold turkey the day she donned the cannula.

SWWBO smoked for many years, and still has to avoid certain situations where the behavioral urge is strong.

I'm just doing what I get to do - point out the cost from the other perspective.

If it inspires one person to quit, great.

If it inspires 100 people to quit, better.

If it has no impact at all, s'okay. I got it off my chest.

But the cost of my mother's manner of death and the impact on me is every bit as valid as Monte's right to keep on lighting up.

Thanks for dropping down from the rafters to join the discussion, Monte. I don't recall having seen you in the comments before! So, if nothing else, this post was worth it for that alone.

posted by John of Argghhh! on March 23, 2007 9:36 AM

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I don't smoke. I do chew like a fiend. My wife jokingly refers to me as "Cow". Not because I'm a large individual, but because she says I look like a cow chewing cud all the time.

Lesser of 2 evils? Maybe. Maybe not. At least no one is breathing 2nd hand smoke from me. My clothes and my house don't stink. neither does my truck.

Lost my mothers father to Cancer on my birthday September of 1997. They had removed one lung. He kept on smoking. They removed half of his remaining lung. Kept on smoking. Removed a quarter of what remained and said there was nothing left they could do.

Then he quit. And died 6 days later.

I hear what your saying, it's not the place of the Nanny State to rule the roost as it were but it is a choice that we make.

With the exception of a cigar maybe once a year, I'm not a smoker. Nor do I want to be.

posted by BloodSpite on March 23, 2007 9:50 AM

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I became addicted to nicotine in the late 1960's, working in a radio station where I was the only non-smoker. I was having yet another nicotine fit when someone stuck a lit cigarette in my hand and told me to try it. Bliss.

Took me twenty years to quit. Been about twenty years since my last cigarette now, and -- while I don't have lung cancer yet and there have been other medical problems -- I still get cravings. My doctor says that she thinks it's harder for people to quit smoking, and stay quit, than crack, heroin, or cocaine. It was hard; I ended up first using a random reinforcement program to get rid of the cigarettes, substituting nicotine gum, and then had to get off the nicotine gum, and then off chewing gum.

I'm getting a craving just writing about it.

I wish I could provide some help to others in quitting, or in helping others to help others, but I don't have any. I don't think I could have done it without the patient, non-nagging, encouragement of my wife. Thank you again, Spice!

posted by htom on March 23, 2007 2:23 PM

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I smoked for a few years starting in college, and quit when I met the Hubster. In fact, it is fair to say that I wouldn't be married to him if I hadn't quit.
My Mom started because my Dad smoked, and then he quit, but she did not. I had bugged her about quitting once, and then left it alone because she was so upset by the intimation that she *wanted* to smoke. After her death (not from lung cancer), I discovered from my sister that Mom had actually managed to quit for about 6 months a few years earlier. Unfortunately she had not tossed the last couple of packs into the trash, and when she received a stressful phone call one day ... she had a pack opened and a lit cigarette in her mouth almost by magic. The habits are very, very hard to break.

I'm glad you got this out, John - and I hope that at least one person stops, or never starts, because of it. Good goal.

posted by Barb on March 23, 2007 3:23 PM

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John, I am a NON-SMOKER, Never have. I am a service-connected disabled vet, brain issues. There was one time in the hospital, this poor nurse comes up to me, to get my medical history. You need to realize this woman is efficient in everything she does, to the point of being a fault. She comes to me to do this history. She asks, "Do you smoke?" My answer, "Ma'am, sorry, but I'm not smart enough to smoke." I'm in a Texas military hospital at the time. Did you ever go through the time when you are joking with somebody and you are waiting for the understanding to tricle down to their level. It gets down to her level. In a perfect southern Texas drawl, she says, "S-a-y w-h-a-t?" (You can not believe the temptation to just say, "What", I figured that would have really pushed her over the edge.) Doc, who was standing nearby, walked over and said, "Explain". I said "I have a father who has been tested and found to have an IQ in the top 1%. My brother, a high school drop out, but like my father had an IQ in the top 1%, where my brother worked, he had assistants with their PhD in math from M.I.T. This was confirmed by independent verification. Both of these men smoked, I don't smoke, therefore, I'm not smart enough!" Doc, just belly laughed. The nurse grew a sense of humor.

-Grumpy

posted by Grumpy on March 23, 2007 3:36 PM

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John,

My mom couldn't stop smoking either, but she did.

13 days from when they found the cancer to the end.

My siblings and I don't smoke, never have.

My dad managed to give it up decades ago.

They say that the addiction hits women faster, easier, and harder.

Like you I don't want laws to stop people from smoking, but if they ask me about I'll tell them about 13 days.

posted by KCSteve on March 23, 2007 3:43 PM

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I smoked from the time I was 15 until 29 June 1989, the day I quite cold turkey (had to drink decaf for a few weeks to make it work, but that was it). Haven't had a smoke of any kind, not a puff since. I smoked 2-3 packs of Marlboro reds a day, a good deal of it up in smoke as I let an awful lot burn off. I'd of quit sooner if the Army hadn't made it so cheap, but it's not the Army's fault.

My Dad smoked from his boyhood until he died suddenly of blood clot in his 60s in 1986. Of course, he'd been looking like crap for a while. I was plentypPissed when he died, but only because he did it without warning (as if it was his fault...). My first step father smoked, but he died of a brain tumor when I was 11, he was dying for years. My grandfather died of heart failure, he smoked cigars sometimes. My stepmother died of cancer, she never smoked that I know of. And so on.

I stopped smoking because I realized it was stupid. I was a slave to the demon weed, and I ruined clothes and cars and I stank all the time (but didn't know it), and my house smelled, and I spent money on the smokes and the tools, and I had brown fingers, and yellow teeth, and a wheezed sometimes when I ran (though I did manage to pass my PT test pretty well in spite of it), and so on... Even so, it was stupid.

I have been telling my daughter since she was old enough to hear it that people who smoke are stupid. I make no apologies for that. Anyone who smokes today, knowing what we know, people who take up smoking are morons. People who are addicted may be so, but that's the problem, it's not fun or something they want to do. People who smoke and claim they are doing what the law and God allow them to do are rationalizing. They are still stupid. And unlike John, I don't care what anyone says. If you smoke and you have family (children, especially), then you care more about yourself then you do about them. Period. You can lie to us, you can lie to them, you can lie to yourself, but anything you do that diminishes your life on purpose, and that creates hardship for your family, without good purpose, is selfish and mean. And stupid.

I am not, by the way, an evangelist former smoker. If people want to smoke, that's ok with me, as long as I don't have to share the smoke anymore. If people want to stink of smoke, that's fine, but I reserve the right to ask them to move away from me just as I would if an unwashed person sat down next to me while I was eating (and trust me, smokers, the smell of a fresh burnt cigarette is as bad as an unwashed body, except I can smell a smoker coming or walking by on the other side of the cubical wall, whereas most dirty people only smell bad if you get close). And if you think I am making it up, just ask any non-smoker who isn't afraid to tell you the truth.

And if you smoke in your car, take a razor to the inside of the windshield sometime. Or a white handkerchief. Smoker's cars stink. And they are filthy (unless they work hard to get rid of that)...

I agree that people have the right to smoke. In their houses, where there are no children, who are being abused by secondhand smoke no less than if they were being fed tainted meat. My parents smoked, I smoked, my wife smoked.. Hell everyone in my generation smoked, if not tobacco, then pot, but I don't smoke anymore, and my wife doesn't smoke, and my daughter knows full well that her favorite uncle who chewed and smoked for years was STUPID!! He did all of that until he was diagnosed last November with stage 4 lymphoma, and everyone including my daughter got really distraught! Fortunately, Anderson in Houston was able to help him (thanks be to God), and so now my daughter has an example of the bad and the good. And as for my brother-in-law, well he used to get angry when I told my daughter he was stupid for smoking, now he just agrees... And he's glad he'll get to see his two granddaughters (one under 2, the other newborn) maybe grow up a little more.

People who smoke when they don't have to are stupid. I make no apologies for saying so, I don't care if anyone likes it. I smoked for almost two decades. I can say whatever the hell I like about people like me.

If you are offended and you hate me, but you stop, then hate me. If you just get mad, but keep on smoking, well, I might yet find I have cancer from all the smoking I did do, but my daughter will never have any reason to be angry at me for caring more about my stupid filthy habit than I do about her.

posted by Sanger on March 23, 2007 10:54 PM

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Addiction is addiction no matter it a line of coke or a stick of tobacco or something else. It takes some real mental strength to escape it. I am fortunate I had enough strength to evade entering it because that is not as hard then.

I'm not that quick to judge the addicted. For one thing I am not free of all addiction and for another I have evidenced just because you snort a line doesn't mean you're stupid. Just because you puff a cigar doesn't mean you don't love your family. An alcoholic may not necessarily be evil. What it does mean is a certain limit of inner vision a weakness among what may be many strengths.

Good call tho John perhaps you will awaken just one of your readers and save a family's early heartache. Most, tho will have trouble not being irritated by a truth thrown in an unwilling face.

posted by Trias on March 24, 2007 4:07 AM

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While the risk is not usually as dramatic as the case with smoking, all of us make choices that may end up making our lives either shorter or longer. What we eat, where we live, what hobbies we pursue, what kind of car we drive, etc. And if you start making all these choices out of some mistaken obligation to extend your lives at any cost, we very quickly end up not having much of a life at all.

posted by Stormy Dragon on March 24, 2007 12:47 PM

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And I'm just laying out potential consequences, that some people don't consider, based on hard recent experience.

I'm not making anyone do anything.

And I'm not going to persuade anyone who just can't let it go.

But if I get to one waverer, then my work here has exceeded expectation.

posted by John of Argghhh! on March 24, 2007 2:29 PM

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Really, really well said. Brutal honesty always makes writing so much more powerful.

posted by R.H. Potfry on March 24, 2007 5:53 PM

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Say what you will Trias--but my goal is to make it perfectly clear to my currently non-smoking daughter that smoking is not cool, it is not a fashion choice, it is just plain stupid. As I said, if people want to smoke, fine, so long as I don't have to share the smoke--and BTW, I ALWAYS asked before I lit one up, which is far from the case these days. And my daughter will see that I lead by example, not by decree.

As for this: "all of us make choices that may end up making our lives either shorter or longer....if you start making...choices out of some mistaken obligation to extend your lives at any cost" This is irrellevent and besides the point. I am not talking about undue avoidance of danger, or prolonging life at any cost, and it is NOT a mistaken obligation if we are talking about the obligation one has to at least be honest with the people who care about you. If you are addicted to something, say so, explain it as such, and accept that you are a slave to the weakness inside. But don't try to pass off something as nasty as smoking as a lifestyle choice just because you don't want to admit you have a problem. My brother in law is full of those clever little common wisdom items that go against the grain of common sense in pursuit of a need to not be told what to do. He never wears seat belts either (I am alive because of seat belts), and he wouldn't wear a helmet (another brother in law is alive because of a MC helmet), and he smoked because he 'wanted to,' and because he didn't "need noone telling him what to do." Except he has four sons who adore him, and a wife who will be lost without him, and two new grand daughters, and at least one niece who idolizes him. Is it a mistaken obligation to care about those folks? I know that is not your point, but your point went off on a tangent that had zip to do with smoking and the choices people make.

And Trias: I could hardly disagree more with this: "just because you snort a line doesn't mean you're stupid." Of course you are. I did all sort of things when I was younger and STUPID, that I would never do now. I drank myself stupid more than a few times. I did a variety of drugs and that was stupid too. Just because a person doesn't want to admit he's an idiot doesn't mean he's not. Anyone who snorts a line (of anything worth snorting) is really pretty stupid by almost any standard.

And as for this: "Just because you puff a cigar doesn't mean you don't love your family." True. But if you know that puffing that cigar is going to make life harder for your family--even if there is only a pretty good chance that's true-- and still you persist, then you absolutely care more about yourself and your pleasures than about your family--OR you are an addict and you need help.

And I never said anything about anyone being evil, and I wasn't talking about alcohol, which is a much different kind of problem than smoking, though a lot of people try to compare them.

In fact, some addictions are problems right now; like alcoholism, gambling, heroin, and crack. Others are potential time-bombs, like unprotected sex with multiple partners (especiall if you are a young girl and haven't had the cervical cancer immunization), or smoking... No matter how one tries to dress it up, smoking is a dirty habit that causes problems for the smoker from the first puff, and for the smoker's loved ones in the long run.

And finally, I challenge any long term smoker to say he or she has never burned a table edge or table top with a burning butt, has never ruined at least one good dress or pair of pants with a bruning ash, has never set fire to something unintended while lighting a smoke, or when tossing one, has never had brown fingers, stained teeth, brown crap coming out of his or her mouth and nose, and so on ad nauseum. A person can claim it's a choice all he or she wants, but what hard-core cigarette smoker would take up smoking again if he or she could live to do it all over again? Only the stupidest, as far as I'm concerned.

And again, I do not apologize for that.

posted by SangerM on March 24, 2007 11:59 PM

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SangerM i have no idea why you have linked me as though i have claimed smoking was cool or a fashion choice. I made no such claim.

You seem unable to differentiate between stupid people and the stupid actions of people.

Alcoholism is an addiction too not a different kind of problem at all. What are the details for your claim that it is different?

Your goal of protecting your daughter from this vile addiction is noble enough but you should know by now taking the moral high ground won't win wars with teens. They know many of your darkest features already. Worse still calling people stupid might make you feel brave and you can even be right but ask your self the obvious question. "Will someone you just called stupid be likely to do what you want?"

John's approach is better because he knows this already.

posted by Trias on March 25, 2007 5:27 AM

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John
Same happened to my mom and I also hope your message stops at least one person.
However I would like to see the weed eradicated, because one could grow a damn healty crop of tomatoes for example in the same plot that tobacco grows in. At least they help prevent cancer.

posted by RobC on March 25, 2007 12:22 PM

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Please note: I've done what I could to make this less 'personal' but it's not as easy as when responding to someone whose arguments actually make sense and pertain to the subject at hand.

Trias wrote: "You seem unable to differentiate between stupid people and the stupid actions of people."

How does me talking about smoking translate into your assumption about my ability to differentiate between one thing and another, eh? You've assumed that because I choose to call smoking stupid I don't know the difference between one kind of stupid and another. In fact, it's you who doesn't seem to know the difference because there IS NO DIFFERENCE if a stupid action is taken with knowledge 'aforehand that the action is stupid and is likely to have negative consequences. Stupid is as stupid does.

And just to be clear, that's not me trying to be brave, that's me calling it like I see it. And these are my opinions, remember. I'm not trying to make you see things my way, or change anyone's behavior, I'm just saying what I believe.

And as for "moral high ground," that's not the issue here at all. This isn't about morals or 'winning' something, it's about health and long-term welfare. More to the point, I'm not at war with my daughter. We may not always agree, but she knows my focus is her welfare, not her control. You can believe this or not, but she comes to me or my wife for advice about every subject imaginable, and she gets straight, no holds barred answers, about whatever she is old enough to ask about (and I mean everything). We don't give 'pointers' of an inappropriate kind, of course, but we don't mince words about health, hygiene, finances, death, sex, or whatever else have you. And we don't sugarcoat or hide things. She doesn't always like the answers, but in our time together neither my wife nor I have ever once told her "because I said so," and I've never told her it was ok for me to do something wrong, but not ok for her (which makes it pretty hard when I try to explain that my foul mouth is not something she wants to cultivate).

With my child and with this SPECIFIC topic, the issues are plain and clear. I used to smoke, I don't smoke anymore, I tell my daughter that people who smoke (and especially people who take up smoking now, knowing what the odds for pain are) are stupid, even though they may be the smartest people walking, or even if you love them, as I did my stepfather.

My daughter may yet smoke, I can't stop that, but she's known since day one that I disapprove strongly of smoking, and that if she ever takes up smoking, 1) I will think she's stupid too, 2) she will never be allowed to smoke in my house, and 3) if her home stinks, I am going to tell her so, and probably not go there very often, just as I don't visit friends' houses now if the house stinks badly from smoke.

As for validation, well, I just this minute asked my daughter "what do you think about people who smoke?" (I had to assure her it was not a trick question--any answer is ok) Her answer: "They're retarded." Said with that little question lilt teen girls put at the end of a sentence they think is too dumb to answer in the first place. Duh, Dad...

I rest my case. The issue is smoking. I think people who smoke are stupid. So does my daughter (at least today). That's all I care about.

Moral high ground indeed. That was just silly.

And so was this, too, actually: "They know many of your darkest features already. Worse still calling people stupid might make you feel brave and you can even be right but ask your self the obvious question. Will someone you just called stupid be likely to do what you want?"

What on earth are you talking about here? Do you think I just go around telling people they should quit smoking? Do you think I care? I don't talk to people about smoking unless they encroach on my breathing space, or we are friends, and even then I don't ever tell people they should quit, I just ask them to move downwind or not make me share the smoke.

I have numerous friends and relatives who smoke, they know how I feel, but I don't berate them, I don't argue with them, I don't pretend I'm their parent or their God, and I never, ever tell anyone they should quit. I smoked for 18 years. Who am I to tell anyone to quit or try to convince them they should?

I talk about me, when it comes up. I tell people I used to smoke, but I don't anymore, and that I thought it was stupid to smoke when it cost so much and had so many negative consequences and NO good ones. I also tell them, if the conversation allows, what I've told my daughter about people who smoke. So far, NO ONE has ever disagreed with me!! And most have said that's the best thing I could do. And I don't have a single friend who thinks smoking is better than not smoking, or who wouldn't quit if he or she could (or hasn't tried to quit).

And finally, this comment: "John's approach is better because he knows this already." John's approach to what?!? What is it that you think he and I are trying to do, but that he is doing better than I am?

Seems to me, Trias, you wrapped a great many biased assumptions around my comments, apparently based on a mistaken understanding of why I wrote what I wrote. For example, I didn't say you "claimed smoking was cool or a fashion choice." I said my goal is to make it perfectly clear to my currently non-smoking daughter that smoking is not cool, it is not a fashion choice, it is just plain stupid." The key is the stupid part, in opposition to the messages she gets from her schoolmates or from the media (and that we got when I was young) that smoking is cool, or hip, or goes with your latest chic dress or music, etc.

Does that make more sense now or are you going to go off on another goofy tangent about some other supposed flaw in my character or personality?

posted by SangerM on March 25, 2007 6:49 PM

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SangerM you are certainly quick to bring me into the replys for no good reason. Why, since fashion has nothing to do with it?

That's no assumption. You made it quite clear. But I do note you haven't talked about telling your friends they are stupid. I wonder if you do and why you like to have stupid friends. One wonders should any of them do something smart one day they would still be stupid because 'stupid is as stupid' does.

So why is alcoholism different?

I admit i assumed you were attempting to prevent your daughter from smoking in the context that she wanted to smoke. It would seem I am wrong so you're pretty much preaching to the choir. Thus my comments about how you could approach it are irrelevant and it also seems you are only talking about your concern for your daughter and don't care about anyone else in this matter.

Despite what you think SangerM, i have no real interest in your flaws or strengths of personality etc. I'm not trying to make this personal.

posted by Trias on March 26, 2007 2:31 AM

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� Dismissed, Soldier!

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Well, here I went and deleted a lot of the old joke posts last weekend to free up some disk space... and along comes Princess Crabby renewing one!

BWA-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!

On the internet, everything is new. To someone.

posted by John of Argghhh! on March 23, 2007 2:48 PM

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Did the other one say "Kisses....Princess Crabby"? No? I didn't think so! This one is better based on that alone.

posted by Maggie on March 23, 2007 2:53 PM

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This is one catlick skoolgurl who has *no* self-esteem issues!

posted by John of Argghhh! on March 23, 2007 3:32 PM

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i wonder what are the chances of finding a Republican on an unimproved un-named road, just south of two bldgs with a "Y" shaped driveway, west of the railway and Route 67, just south of the town of Mertzon,TX (in Irion County)?

(dang it, i do love GPS and Google Earth)

posted by MajMike on March 26, 2007 10:16 AM

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� Dismissed, Soldier!

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So, how do we help Yon?

posted by FbL on March 23, 2007 9:56 AM

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Publish. Push the story.

That's all we can do.

posted by John of Argghhh! on March 23, 2007 10:03 AM

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As smart as General Petreaus is, and given what I'm told of his knowledge of how to fight this kind of war, I foresee a certain two-star getting an ass-ripping from the CG.

If I were Petreaus (and assuming he has the authority), I'd fire the a$$hole. How the hell does someone become a flag officer, let alone one in such an important position, with such a fundamental lack of understanding of the big picture?

posted by Heartless Libertarian on March 23, 2007 10:47 AM

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God save us from staff weenies like this one-star.

Assuming Yon is in the right, dragging said general's actions out in the light is a good move. Guys like that thrive on back-room payback and are masters at leveraging their power over others in Machiavellian ways. Publicly exposing this move for the cynical, manipulative, political gutpunch that it is should be sufficient to make the general back down.

But he won't forget... these types never do. Yon will need to watch his back from this point on; to these guys, public humiliation and questioning of their authority are unforgiveable sins.

posted by TheNewGuy on March 23, 2007 12:07 PM

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� Dismissed, Soldier!

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John - Well I woke up this morning and saw that the thread of the 21st had a life of it's own.

I will pontificate shortly on my one point that seemed to draw the most argument; i.e. All the Islamists understand is power. First, I must have another cup of coffee and contemplate these mysteries in context

posted by Oldloadr on March 23, 2007 8:52 AM

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To answer those who questioned or took exception to my comments:
1. What is an Islamist? I believe that an Islamist is a radical ideologue who truly believes he/she is doing the will of Allah by killing all who won’t convert, particularly Christians, or those from the part of the world known historically as Christendom. Of course, they only want to kill Jews, they have no interest in converting them (that goes back to a 3,000 year old sibling rivalry). How do I know this? Because they have said it themselves in their own propaganda. They have acted on these impulses and have argued among themselves on technique. Many Muslim scholars took exception with bin Laden for not giving the people in the WTC a chance to convert before cooking them to death. Although, I did not check the source where I got 10% of Muslims are radicalized, I accepted that based on my personal observations in the ME. That means whether we like it or not, the real inconvenient truth of our age is that 100 million people want to kill us if we don’t denounce our belief system and convert. See, that’s not complex, it’s simple. Now the smoke screen they put up (and that is all that it is) is that we are in the ME stealing their oil, that we support Israel’s right to exist, that we are not fair to the Palestinians (even though they themselves are not fair to them either). They bring up these points to confuse us and to sometimes inflame their followers, but the simple truth is our governments allow us to worship Jesus Christ (or not) and to drink alcohol and eat a ham sandwich.
2. I stand by my statement that all they understand is power. I could talk about the troubles in Fallujah for instance. The Army tried all of their “hearts and minds” tactics and all they got for it was dead GIs. The USMC finally got fed up and trashed the town and now it’s the safest (relative term) in Anbar. I could also mention my last active duty deployment to the ME. The USAF deployed 3 B-1B bombers to this base. Now for those of you who know anything about B-1’s, they don’t have to deploy and have launched air strikes from their CONUS bases. However, the idea was for the leadership of certain ME countries to “see” the power before they felt it. I think that is psychologically significant and nascent to my point.
OK, I’m done now and thanks for the b’day wishes, everyone!
See Maggie, I used spell-check…

posted by Oldloadr on March 23, 2007 9:48 AM

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I need to add my 2 cents worth on this “hot “ subject , 1st let me introduce myself I’m Oldloadr’s wife number 2, but in a past life I lived and worked in baghdad pre gulf war, coming from Ireland and the deep distrust of anything other than catholic teaching it was a breath of fresh air that we could all get along in a strange country, yes we had our moments of disagreements but were always able to share a beer at the end of the night , and while it was the birthplace of the Christian movement it was also steeped in history of multicultural facets. Being the gate way to both east and west, we were treated very well as western women, which didn’t happen in other Arab countries that I worked in. But, we were always aware that at any time we could find ourselves in jail should we cross the line , as happened to a few of my friends when they made the mistake of helping to gather information considered sensitive, We were allowed and encouraged to practice our respective religions, never were approached to convert which was the case in Saudi Arabia .The Iraqi people treated us with great respect and were very grateful for all we did for them , I was a nurse/midwife in a private hospital that Saddam set up so his people wouldn’t have to leave the country to get high class treatment but that was also a doubled edge sword as he didn’t want anyone in the western world to find out what he was up to , we were never naive enough not to realize this so we learned very quickly to look ,listen and say very little and that kept us below the security radar, We knew /saw a lot of things that were happening to the ordinary people that were inhumane , cruel and barbaric, but when I tried to tell people outside of the country I was dismissed as a “dumb Blond” even dumb blonds can see /hear and report as ordered !!!! My point is, it’s not the rank and file Iraqis that are the problem, but the corrupt politicians and foreign religious fanatics who are causing all of the problems.

posted by POT on March 23, 2007 9:55 AM

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Oh, now I want to call Oldloadr "Kettle" for some reason!

Welcome, V2.0! An Irish Blonde - 'loadr you sly divil you!

posted by John of Argghhh! on March 23, 2007 10:06 AM

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yeap he is the kettle that keeps the pot hot, tea anyone????

posted by POT on March 23, 2007 10:15 AM

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Tea? *perk!*

Aye lass, if'n I didn't like Loadr so much I'd have to run away with you to a far blue mountain for a good cup of strong black tea!!!

err....uhm....anyway

I've been doing a bunch of debates lately mostly at Stephens place (thats what happens your stuck at home 24/7 I guess) and I have stuff I want to interject on the 21st debate...but I'm afraid I'll say it wrong. I'll sort it out and try to put in my .02 sometime.

Blog-Burn out maybe? I really need to go fishing.

posted by BloodSpite on March 23, 2007 10:38 AM

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Guess this just petered out after starting with a firestorm...

Hmmmm....

posted by Oldloadr on March 24, 2007 9:12 AM

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� Dismissed, Soldier!

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Considering that Bill knows what kind of headaches I get, and at what point I come to a full and complete stop... DAMN. not to mention the "evacuation procedures" that follow the headache.

*shudder*

(the BAD kind of shudder)

posted by Were-Kitty on March 23, 2007 9:34 AM

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Oh this brings back some bad memories, BTW Grape Nehi mixes well with the old keister-plaster, maybe it was a Navy thing......

posted by Old Fat Sailor on March 23, 2007 10:22 PM

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Oh man... that takes me back to Desert Shield.

During the build up my unit had only been in Daharan, Saudi Arabia, for about three weeks. We were stuck at a -- 10,000 +/- man -- camp called Cement City. We called it Semen City, but that's a different story. HEH!

Anyway, so many people came down with a similar bug that at least two Combat Support Hospitals were flooded with troops within 72 hours. It seems that the 4 hole out-houses were a tad to close to the mess tent and the flies were going back and forth, back and forth. In fact, the only way to keep the flies off your food was to liberally coat everything with Tobasco, or some other brand of, hot sauce.

There I was, filling sand bags with the rest of my platoon, when in a matter of minutes it hit me, and most of the rest of us. With a great portion of the troops of Cement City to soon follow.

The first sign was just a headache. The second sign, within 10 minutes, was the involuntary evacuation of your stomach and bowels at the exact same instant.

YEAH!! Projectile puking and rocket booster shits in the same instant... nasty, wet, stinking, and uncontrollable.

It was a mess, to say the least.

By the time I got to the clinic I was so dehydrated that they couldn't get an IV started and I couldn't hold even a sip of water down.

Sip, heave, puke, spasm, shit, heave, puke, spasm, shit... sip, repeat!

By the time I got to the CaSH my temp was approaching 105 and I was packed in ice.

Later -- about 5 days later -- the doc told me that they had induced a coma to keep me in the ice as long as possible and reduce the chance of brain swelling and injury. After seven days in the CaSH I was deemed fit for duty.

Worst sickness I've ever had, and I don't even remember 75% of my hospital stay. LOL

V5

posted by V5 on March 23, 2007 10:35 PM

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V5 - You guys weren't acclimatized yet, which is why you dehydrated so fast. You'd have been just as miserable if it hit you at the six month mark, but it would have taken at least 12 hours to shrivel you up.

Now imagine bouncing in a helicopter with all that going on -- uuhhhhhmm -- going out...

posted by BillT on March 24, 2007 12:20 AM

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� Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs (oops, can't call 'em UAVs anymore - they're now Unmanned Aerial Systems... some Colonel got his Legion of Merit for that change...), er, um UAS's we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

� Secure this line!

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If I may pontificate, just a bit: In my experience with the VA as both a client and a school certifying official I have come to several conclusions I would like to express:
1. The VA is staffed by government civilians, most, but not all are veterans themselves, but all are in the civil service system. This means that personal performance is a personal choice. We all know that it is far easier to discharge a military member than to fire a government employee. In dealing with veteran-students seeking vocational rehabilitation (which is conditional on a disability rating), I found the system to be arbitrary and precocious. Whether or not a veteran received voc-rehab benefits for his/her chosen field of study depended entirely on which counselor they saw. There were 2 responsible for the region I was working in and they had totally opposite attitudes: One thought the money was coming out of her own pocket; the other seemed to wake up every morning looking for something good to do for a veteran. Guess which one I told all of my students to make their appointments with.
2. I ended up not pursuing any kind of disability since I was going to school and having trouble getting the VA to respond to both my Education needs and my disability claim, I chose to pursue straightening out my education situation (since the college insisted on being paid for their efforts). By the time I had finished my Masters degree, I had contacted my congressman so many time that his aide eventually told me to not even bother calling the VA 800 number, but to contact his office first with any future problems. The first problem I had was being a Viet Nam era veteran who chose to stay on active duty for 24 years. By the time I had retired, most of the VA staff had forgotten how to process our claims as the Montgomery GI bill omitted dependant stipends, which all previous GI bills contained. Anyway, the regional office in Atlanta lost my dependant certification 4 times. Actually, they didn’t lose it, they just kept throwing it away since they thought it only applied to voc-rehab students. Of course, when the 5th one showed up under the congressman’s cover letter, money instantly materialized in my checking account.
Now I know the discussion was about health care, but my point is the problem is VA wide and systemic.
The funding issue, I think goes back to competing constituencies and giving money to the entitlement class fits a lot of people’s agenda better than keeping promises to those who have honorably served.

posted by Oldloadr on March 22, 2007 8:27 AM

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BS - I'm sorry for your loss.

posted by Maggie on March 22, 2007 8:34 AM

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Mags-> Thanks. I wish I could say I knew her well, or personally, but I didn't. Passed a few E-mails with her, new of her work with NRO, and watched/read a lot of her confrontation with the LAT, but beyond that I knew her less than I know folks here. Still, good people however.

On the VA thing.
I've never even bothered to be checked for a disability rating. For one thing I can work, so I see no reason to take money from someone who actually needs it. That being said I was never examined during my discharge process by the VA, even though it was a Involuntary/Medical discharge

Would I get it? I don't know. But what I do know is it's probably not worth the fight. I will say that my local VA Hospital has been outstanding. I've heard rumors that they are ranked highly, but I've never seen anything conclusive for me to tout them.

However both the quality of care, (Hell my Doctor actually has called me at home several times to see how I'm doing, remind me to take my med's and see if there was anything else I needed for him to do or follow up care) and for the most part they do things pretty fast (I was examined by Ortho on this past Monday. I already have an MRI appointment today.)

That being said we used to refer to the VA Hospital outside of Atlanta on the 285 perimeter as "The Butcher Shop" so I guess it really is variable on where you are.

posted by BloodSpite on March 22, 2007 8:45 AM

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Bloodspite - you aren't taking money from someone who needs it regarding the disability payments, it's not like there's a fixed pool.

And if your disability affects your life, or life expectancy, then you *earned* it. Not quite the same thing as a handout.

Regarding VA medical care - it is spotty, and there are places where great things are done. Eisenhower Medical Center in Leavenworth is considered a pretty good (if limited) hospital. Truman Medical Center down in KC, has in the past been a roach-infested cesspool.

Guess which one the VA periodically wants to close?

That said - the logic is that Truman is closer to a larger number of veterans, which certainly is a supportive argument - if we believed they would fix the problems at Truman.

As for VA medical care, even though I am a priority 1, "must see" client of the VA, because I have other options available to me, I choose to not use the VA, so there are that many more appointments available to the space available veterans with no other good options.

posted by John of Argghhh! on March 22, 2007 9:08 AM

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I had already read some of Cathy's stuff, in particular about different people driving her to treatments. I remember being so grateful that I have my sisters and the rest of my family. Everyone should have a support network. We have one out here and I am grateful for that too.

posted by Maggie on March 22, 2007 9:29 AM

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"Who's been minding the store?" said Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., a member of the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee.

Kind of sad how much that says, isn't it?

posted by KCSteve on March 22, 2007 1:12 PM

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KCSteve - I am constantly embarassed that my fellow Washingtonians sent Murray back to the Senate, especially after her goofy statement about OBL years ago. This one just demonstrates her complete cluelessness.

posted by Barb on March 22, 2007 2:22 PM

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� Dismissed, Soldier!

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Well,

I never like to be found wrong but I'm glad I was mistaken this time. Like I said I was oblivious to the whole thing until I saw that comic. I guess that's what I get for believing something written by a guy who draws talking dogs and cats.

I'm definitely a dog person. I don't have anything against cats, I just don't have anything for them either.

My wife and I have two dogs, Rusty, a long legged chihuahua and Penny, a miniature dachshund. Since we work different shifts the dogs keep us company when the other is at work.
I know how strongly I'm bonded with my dogs. I can't even begin to fathom how strongly someone must get to a dog that has saved their life. Thanks for setting me straight.

posted by NevadaDailySteve on March 22, 2007 9:34 AM

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It's not Ft. Benning-ish, but the Clermont County, OH war memorial pays special tribute to dogs who have served and/or were killed while serving the US military. When I mentioned it to John a couple of years ago, when I first noticed it, he immediately said "Well, SURE there's a memorial! There's a lot more, too, including the big one at Ft. Benning."

I was very surprised- and glad- to hear the news. And now, thanks to Steve, I know I wasn't alone thinking that war dogs didn't get the credit they deserved!

posted by AFSister on March 22, 2007 12:42 PM

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There is also a section of the Quartermaster Museum in Ft. Lee dedicated to not only the wardogs, but horses and other animals used by the military.

posted by Raging_Dave on March 22, 2007 2:17 PM

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� Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs (oops, can't call 'em UAVs anymore - they're now Unmanned Aerial Systems... some Colonel got his Legion of Merit for that change...), er, um UAS's we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

� Secure this line!