We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2010 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html Sat, 24 Mar 2012 15:43:21 Z Movable Type 4.12 en Copyright 2012 http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification I find this picture fascinating. I'll let you figure out why.... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html Sun, 18 Feb 2007 08:29:23 -0600 Thanks, JMH! http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html#comment-56898 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html#comment-56898 Mon, 19 Feb 2007 21:36:00 -0600 escorting Flying Fortresses, and being intercepted by Spits. Yoicks. ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html#comment-56850 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html#comment-56850 Sun, 18 Feb 2007 21:24:34 -0600 Afsis The track, er, broke. It appears to have been in close proximity to the impact by a heavy metallic object, travelling at a velocity of not less than a "speeding bullet", on the hull side. Such impacts can be, at minimum, disruptive, but trend generally toward traumatic. But not for the gunner who pressed the trigger. Sabot -> Hard Target = Gratification+++ Cheers http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html#comment-56847 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html#comment-56847 Sun, 18 Feb 2007 20:19:57 -0600 wot in the helk is wrong with the tracks? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html#comment-56843 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html#comment-56843 Sun, 18 Feb 2007 17:30:59 -0600 That may well be part of the current KO status of the wagon. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html#comment-56842 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html#comment-56842 Sun, 18 Feb 2007 17:05:49 -0600 The "loose track" looks a little too much so, fubar in fact. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html#comment-56840 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html#comment-56840 Sun, 18 Feb 2007 16:38:21 -0600 Yay I guessed it right. Well I got the war and area right anyway. Clearly desert, clearly not DAK therefore post WWII and only an Arab would be dum enough to use them. I say let em have nukes, you know their going to screw up and set them off themselves soon enough. Ask Allenby. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html#comment-56837 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html#comment-56837 Sun, 18 Feb 2007 14:58:11 -0600 AW1 Tim, I've got a Macksey book that references Israeli Centurions trading pot shots with a two Syrian MkIVs near Nukheila in Nov 60. The Centurions had 105s...not much of a contest. Israelis kept their Shermans for quite some time. I seem to recal that they still had Super Shermans in their inventory as late as 1982. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html#comment-56836 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html#comment-56836 Sun, 18 Feb 2007 13:57:06 -0600 http://www.fun-online.sk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1943&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=syria&start=0 Post-war purchases from Spain. Nice discussion about them, and they also got some Stuggs in the deal..... Respects,]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html#comment-56835 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html#comment-56835 Sun, 18 Feb 2007 13:54:57 -0600 Crest on the skirt looks like the Afghan crest, same as used on the Afghan contract ZB30 light machine guns. Terrain certainly looks like the hospitable Afghan countryside. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html#comment-56834 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html#comment-56834 Sun, 18 Feb 2007 13:18:20 -0600 AW1 Tim, during the Balkan wars which attended the breakup of Yugoslavia, the Serbs (possibly the Croats and Bosnians as well) were still using T-34s. The Serbs also used US made tank destroyers of WWII vintage-I couldn't tell from the overheads if they were M18s (3" gun) or M36s (90mm). When you've got a tank-any tank-and the other guy doesn't, it's a huge advantage. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html#comment-56831 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html#comment-56831 Sun, 18 Feb 2007 12:05:57 -0600 That looks like a cover on the muzzle brake; look closely and you can see a couple of straps holding it on. Poor buggers never got a shot off... I bet the carcass finished it's days on an Israeli tank gunnery range (unless it's still there, bulldozed to the side and forgotten) http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html#comment-56830 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html#comment-56830 Sun, 18 Feb 2007 12:02:52 -0600 Looks like that bolt-on, anti-shaped charge armor took a hit from a solid AP shot. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html#comment-56829 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html#comment-56829 Sun, 18 Feb 2007 11:31:54 -0600 Comrades, The interesting part of the story is that it was knocked out on the Golan Hights, I believe, during the 6-day war. I'm going on deep core memory here, but IIRC, these were Syrian Mk-IV's. They had 4 or 6 of them up there, still in use more than 20 years after WWII ended. I personally think it was criminal of them to be using them in combat. Not because they were outclassed and a danger to their crews in combat, but because there are so damned few left. They OUGHT to have been in a museum somewhere, but alas..... Interesting, though, how so many years later, you have Israelies with Shermans, and Syrians with Panzer IV's..... talk about a surreal engagement. Respects, http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html#comment-56828 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html#comment-56828 Sun, 18 Feb 2007 11:06:45 -0600 Coffee hasn't kicked in yet. Meant the muzzle brake looks plugged (or covered?), not bore evacuator. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html#comment-56827 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html#comment-56827 Sun, 18 Feb 2007 10:58:29 -0600 Later model MkIV (long 75 and bolt on armor on turret). Also the bore evacuator looks plugged. Did they stick their nose in the dirt? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html#comment-56826 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html#comment-56826 Sun, 18 Feb 2007 10:48:17 -0600 A knocked-out MkIV... whats that crest on the turret skirt? I can't make it out. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html#comment-56825 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/obscure_histori.html#comment-56825 Sun, 18 Feb 2007 10:38:58 -0600