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Obscure historical tidbits...

By The Armorer on February 18, 2007 | | Comments (17)

I find this picture fascinating.

I'll let you figure out why.

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17 Comments

By Neffi on February 18, 2007 10:38 AM
A knocked-out MkIV... whats that crest on the turret skirt? I can't make it out.
 
By Blackhawk on February 18, 2007 10:48 AM
Later model MkIV (long 75 and bolt on armor on turret). Also the bore evacuator looks plugged. Did they stick their nose in the dirt?
 
By Blackhawk on February 18, 2007 10:58 AM
Coffee hasn't kicked in yet. Meant the muzzle brake looks plugged (or covered?), not bore evacuator.
 
By Gwedd on February 18, 2007 11:06 AM
Comrades, The interesting part of the story is that it was knocked out on the Golan Hights, I believe, during the 6-day war. I'm going on deep core memory here, but IIRC, these were Syrian Mk-IV's. They had 4 or 6 of them up there, still in use more than 20 years after WWII ended. I personally think it was criminal of them to be using them in combat. Not because they were outclassed and a danger to their crews in combat, but because there are so damned few left. They OUGHT to have been in a museum somewhere, but alas..... Interesting, though, how so many years later, you have Israelies with Shermans, and Syrians with Panzer IV's..... talk about a surreal engagement. Respects,
 
By BillT on February 18, 2007 11:31 AM
Looks like that bolt-on, anti-shaped charge armor took a hit from a solid AP shot.
 
By Neffi on February 18, 2007 12:02 PM
That looks like a cover on the muzzle brake; look closely and you can see a couple of straps holding it on. Poor buggers never got a shot off... I bet the carcass finished it's days on an Israeli tank gunnery range (unless it's still there, bulldozed to the side and forgotten)
 
By Heartless Libertarian on February 18, 2007 12:05 PM
AW1 Tim, during the Balkan wars which attended the breakup of Yugoslavia, the Serbs (possibly the Croats and Bosnians as well) were still using T-34s. The Serbs also used US made tank destroyers of WWII vintage-I couldn't tell from the overheads if they were M18s (3" gun) or M36s (90mm). When you've got a tank-any tank-and the other guy doesn't, it's a huge advantage.
 
By John S. on February 18, 2007 1:18 PM
Crest on the skirt looks like the Afghan crest, same as used on the Afghan contract ZB30 light machine guns. Terrain certainly looks like the hospitable Afghan countryside.
 
By Gwedd on February 18, 2007 1:54 PM
Comrades, More images of this vehicle, and a nice discussion about the Syrian Pz IV's may be found here: http://www.fun-online.sk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1943&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=syria&start=0 Post-war purchases from Spain. Nice discussion about them, and they also got some Stuggs in the deal..... Respects,
 
By Blackhawk on February 18, 2007 1:57 PM
AW1 Tim, I've got a Macksey book that references Israeli Centurions trading pot shots with a two Syrian MkIVs near Nukheila in Nov 60. The Centurions had 105s...not much of a contest. Israelis kept their Shermans for quite some time. I seem to recal that they still had Super Shermans in their inventory as late as 1982.
 
By Murray on February 18, 2007 2:58 PM
Yay I guessed it right. Well I got the war and area right anyway. Clearly desert, clearly not DAK therefore post WWII and only an Arab would be dum enough to use them. I say let em have nukes, you know their going to screw up and set them off themselves soon enough. Ask Allenby.
 
By Consul-At-Arms on February 18, 2007 4:38 PM
The "loose track" looks a little too much so, fubar in fact.
 
By Murray on February 18, 2007 5:05 PM
That may well be part of the current KO status of the wagon.
 
By afsister on February 18, 2007 5:30 PM
wot in the helk is wrong with the tracks?
 
By J.M. Heinrichs on February 18, 2007 8:19 PM
Afsis The track, er, broke. It appears to have been in close proximity to the impact by a heavy metallic object, travelling at a velocity of not less than a "speeding bullet", on the hull side. Such impacts can be, at minimum, disruptive, but trend generally toward traumatic. But not for the gunner who pressed the trigger. Sabot -> Hard Target = Gratification+++ Cheers
 
By Casey Tompkins on February 18, 2007 9:24 PM
Reminds me of some of the aviation hand-me-downs for that region. IIRC, the Israelis copped some BF-109s (maybe from Spain, re-engined with the Hispano-Suiza) and B-17s. The Egyptians had Spitfires left over from WW2. So we had the surreal instance of Israeli Messerschmidts escorting Flying Fortresses, and being intercepted by Spits. Yoicks.
 
By afsister on February 19, 2007 9:36 PM
Thanks, JMH!