H&I* Fires, 14 Feb 2007

As far as humor at HuffPo, I dont know if you mean just the post. But the comments are hilarious! Here's an example:No matter what Donohue says or does, it is already too late. He has loosed the genie of hatred, and he cannot put it back in the bottle. Nor can any other right-wing hate-spewer.'Cause, you know... the hatred was never a part of left-wing discourse. ROFL!

Well, for some reason, the Dems keep thinking that the way to counter the "G-D" complex of the right wing conservative branch is to demean G-d and all those that believe in him because they fully believe, based on some bizarre data, that there are way more "cool" Christians and atheist that are fearful of the power of the Conservative Christians. The problem, of course, is that all Christian teaching starts out with the very basic premisis of the bible, "cool" Christian or not, when you start dissing the core concepts of religion with a really wide and nasty brush, you are definitely going to offend the living h-ll out of some of those "cool" Christians. The best part is that folks like ms. Marcotte think they came up with the concepts of charity, helping others, defending liberty and any number common practices without the influence of Christianity. If she had remembered her history and upbringing, she would have also recalled "do unto others". She didn't. And now she must, in other biblical terms, "reap the whirlwind". And she thought the bible was just a giant tool to oppress women and force unmitigated population growth. heh. She must have slept through Sunday School.

ry - Our forefathers started a revolution over taxes! Most people who have a belief system think their belief system is more important than their tax bracket. I hope that puts it in context for you. Sure, Jesus himself said to turn the other cheek, but God also empowered David to take 200 Philistine foreskins just for a wedding dowry. Therefore, a little righteous indignation should certainly not offend your Wackifornia sensitivities. There are things more important than human life to many of us. It is also interesting that it is usually those who have no respect for life in the womb who make the biggest whine over mere threats. The last I checked, nobody has ever died by being threatened to death. Maybe my time in the AOR has hardened me, but that's how I see it. This all looks disjointed but I don’t want to write a dissertation, just thoughts on why others may be a little more incensed than you can comprehend.

(moved to proper place. ry) I o w a h a w k = stupid (rare) H u f f i n g t o n P o s t = vile (always) And as for the target of disdain, I find her stuff actually more interesting, better written, and a whole lot more entertaining than either of the two sites ref'd. Go figure. Must be my contrarian nature... Posted by SangerM at February 14, 2007 1:32 PM

ry- I think you are right that threats aren't smart. However, I don't think it's the big deal everybody makes of them n,owadays. I guess I've got a bad attitude on that one. To me, no blood, no foul, that's all. I don't threaten, personally unless I intend to carry though. Since I don't think those 2 commies are worth going to jail for, I guess I won't threaten them.

> And as for the target of disdain, I find her stuff actually more interesting, better written, and a whole lot more entertaining than either of the two sites ref'd. Go figure. Must be my contrarian nature... > Do tell Sanger. What ideas does she ponder that make dropping the f bomb every three sentences worth it? I've only seen what's been linked to, and found it to be as offensive as many claim that a Quran in the toilet is. But if she actually has ideas, well, that makes her readable, no? Ry, First of all, the only reason I don't 'cuss more on-line is that it makes one look ignorant, and because 1) it's not allowed here (mostly), and 2) I am trying to create a "portfolio" of things that I can point back to and say, I wrote that stuff. Here, on TGR, and on other sites, as well as the websites I'll get back to building after March. BUT, I spent a long time enlisted in armor and infantry units, and frankly, it took me a long time to be able to speak in complete sentences without use of the most all-purpose word in the English language. I mean really, not only can the word stand on it's own in almost any word form (verb, noun, adjective, preposition, etc.), but it can be used as prefix, suffix, and--like no other word I know--it can even be used as both a universal substitute for many other words, AND as an extra syllable to add emphasis to almost any other word. Truly a remarkable word, under-appreciated and over-used. Mostly, though, it's just overly prissy Americans who get whacked out about it. And yes, I understand the value and importance of words, but really, it's just 4 letters that represent a sound, that but for a consonant or two could be any other perfectly good word, like buck, duck, Huck (as in Hound or Finn), luck, muck, puck, ruck, suck, tuck, & yuch. Ah, but you'll talk about connotation. Hmmmm, I know people who find guns and killing and war related words to be obscene, and I think abortion is obscene, even the word connotes evil to me... So what's my point? That your focus on the f-bomb as the key to evaluating her ideas is kind of lame. But hey, you are not alone in that; lots of people judge ideas by who presents them and how it's done rather than by weight of merit. And I'm not above that either. Everybody does it. I just don't care if people use curse words, 'cause those are just grunts, while I do care if people use racial epithets, for example, which are not. Second, All I did was click on the links from here, and then on the links from there to her page, and I read the whole thing, top to bottom. I think she's a bit of a twit, but as I said I found her stuff more interesting, better written, and a whole lot more entertaining than either of the two sites you ref'd. I am too old and crotchety, I guess, to enjoy poorly done stupid satire or parody like the first link, and too intelligent (yes, even me) to see anything other than the random mental firings of half-witted, drool encrusted, knuckle-dragging, bottom-feeding, sea slugs in the other. And her stuff was not evil, just kind of dumb. But she clearly is not--she's just a bit young yet. And look, she's famous, whereas you and I, well, we're just backwater puddlesplashers. Third, the notion of a Quran in a toilet is not offensive to me. Nor is the notion of a bible in a toilet, or an American flag being burnt, or trash-mouth talk about God. Why is that, given the things you know I care about? Well, God will take of what's God's and it is not my job to take up for him. His book, he knows who's done what to it. If he cares, he'll handle it, if he doesn't why should I? And as for flags and other symbols, I care about what they represent, not what they are. Some angry Arab or Pakistani trampling on my flag just shows me how frustrated and or stupid they are. Burning an American flag does not demean the people or the ideals it represents. I fly the flag and wear it because I care about what it represents, not what it is, which is just cloth. By the same token, Ry, I try real hard not to get too whacked out about simple minded things like what that woman wrote, really. If I did, I'd be in the same league as that Catholic fellow who made an a$$ of himself and made her a celebrity with his protest. Now see, the kinds of things that get me steamed are the folks who interfere with soldiers' funerals to protest the war. People who torture children. People who ruin other people's lives without a care (like the Enron buggers who screwed all of the people whose futures depended on the money they stole). People who sell dangerous drugs, especially to school children. People who traffic in slaves (and there is a LOT of that in the world). Forced female genital mutilation. Rape. Abortion as birth control. People in positions of trust who violate that trust for personal gain. False accusers who ruin other people lives. Drunk drivers who commit murder. Bullies of every size and shape. And so on ad nauseam all the way down to and including being forced to sit through utterly stupid annual Rape Prevention classes run by mean, ugly women who figure it's perfectly ok to insult all men just because some are rapists. I now know how non-Japanese Asians must feel when they go the Pearl Harbor Memorial and they are given the evil eye by all the round-eyes who can't tell a Korean, Chinese, or Southeast Asian from a Japanese person. Or even worse, another damn suicide prevention class that makes me just want to slit my wrists out of spite.... "that'd teach 'em.!!!" But I digress again.... Anyway, you took more from what I wrote than I meant, I think. I just found her site less offensive or dumb than the two linked too. No judgment made of her, just them... see?

> Heh. Sanger, sometimes you think too hard. No joke there! But I really don't mind the rules. Same reason I try not to use the word. As you say, some people do get offended, and it is a turn off. I just don't get overly wrapped around the axle if other people do it. It just doesn't offend me, though I have found myself offended on behalf of other people I felt were being abused by a 3rd party. You know what I mean.... But I just don't understand the "concept of 'fighting words'" :-D heh.

ha ha Better get a big one, 'cause I'll be done w/ school in a month, and then I'll really think I'm somethin' heh. yeah. :-p

Ry, Excellent response to my junk... And all perfectly fine and understandable and ok with me... On one point though, I'd like to comment. You wrote "the rule in play is that hatred toward religion and groups is bad. Can't say anything bad about Judaism. Can't say anything bad about Islam." etc... Whose rules? Mine, Yours, the PC world of the ACLU, the Pat Roberts rules? Heck, there are no clear rules on anything anymore except this one: "Everything is ok that I think is ok, and everything I don't like isn't." Screw the rules. (And I'm not talking about the civility rules here on Argghhh, but rather the "societal" rules you are talking about....) Muslims threaten to kill, maim, rape, and pillage for being accused of being overly violent. NeoNazis get heated for being told they are anti-semitic (which is wrong, they are anti-Jew, not necessarily anti-arab). Catholics get hot for being called names at a time when it's almost impossible not to find another weekly news story about child molesting Priests. Jews get all offended for being told Israel is cruel for keeping Palestinians bottled up like in Gaza (try reading the Dosadi Experiment by Herbert to see what I think Israel is creating in Gaza). Homosexuals get tight-a$$ed when some guy says he hates gays, and their femme counterparts get angry when some man says he wouldn't want to 'do' them anyway. Yeah, I get aggravated at a lot of stuff, and I do understand fighting words, but I have had people tell me to my face that Jews are pigs, that Hitler was right, and that the world is a better place because some of my recent relatives were turned into soap, or conversely, that the holocaust never happened; and in 2002, an civilian AF finance office employee told me she understood why I wanted all of the money the AF owed me because 'that's how my people are.' I even had some northeast Italian fellow tell me while I was giving him a price break at a yard sale, "Yeah, I don't wanna Jew you down, or anytin..." And I've had been called every kind of foul name by black people, who I have personally found to be the most vocal and least socially-restrained Jew haters. Which is REALLY funny because when I worked at that defense contractor in Virginia, I had to ask my supervisor and several of my white fellow employees (more than once) not to talk about n-----rs around me or to include me in those kids of conversations. And one of the fellows (a retired AF Lt Col, in fact) said to me, well I woulda' thought you of all people wouldn't mind. Go figure. And there's lots and lots and lots more of that--trust me. For as far back as I can remember. But through all of that, the only thing I could do was talk back... Never a thrown punch, never a major dustup. And usually if I said anything, I got told "Well hey, it's a free country...". So, when I say I can look at something like the what that gal wrote and not be overly offended, well, I guess the little man in the back of my head just figures "at least she's not going on about neocons or Jews (yet)." And BTW, that anti-Jew site AFSis linked to? That kind of stuff is just so common you can't imagine. It's just a feature of my life. And you wanna know what else? One reason I tell people I'm Jewish is so THEY can avoid embarrassing themselves. I mean, I don't have an outsized nose or a tail, and I don't wear a yarmulke or earlocks, and I don't hunt up Christian babies to sacrifice on Passover, and my name doesn't in -stein or -berg or the like, so there's just no way for people to know they might wanna' keep their Jew-jokes and comments to themselves. In fact, I've had to be 'pleasantly' offended far fewer times since I started doing that than before. Of course, I do get asked a lot more dumb questions, and there always seems to be one person who wants to make a point or argue about something, but I refuse, generally to engage (depends on the person). It's really just no use, kind of like arguing with Cliffy-poo. All of which may not answer your questions or satisfy your needs, vis a vis me, but hopefully it gives you some idea about why I tend to see the world just a bit different than most.

There is no order but what order we create, either alone, in our sheltered worlds, or in concert with other like-minded individuals. Order is an illusion, it is a warping of reality, the unbearable chaos of daily life filtered by our minds' eye and presented to the inner 'us' in whatever form we have decided is palatable--today. But never doubt the chaos is there, just beneath the surface, nor that it takes only a slight scratch to reveal the disorder, to unravel the curtains and veils we hang to make us feel secure, safe within the womb and concerned only about warmth. And calm. There is where you find order, but nowhere since.... From the day of our birth, all would be violence and fire at every turn, but for our self-restraint--taught and learned--because humans are always, always of two minds. We spend our days caging the inner demon, the howling fury that is in each of us, that would settle every dispute with a twin-blade ax, or a crushing morningstar, that would gnaw the heart out of an enemy for the sheer excruciating ecstasy of it. We live our lives in the shadow of murder and mayhem, and in our deepest heart of hearts, in our very molecules, we know--we KNOW--that we are only a hands breadth more civilized than our ancestors whose parents were the first to climb down out of the trees. And we do not want to admit, but we all know, there is no greater, more viscerally satisfying moment then when we unleash the Rage, anointed by righteous indignation, to smite with utter rapturous abandon those who've earned our enmity. We are naught but bottled violence, waiting to be shaken. You want an ordered universe? You are in the wrong one. You want calm and peace? Give up the struggle. Let go, cast off and float on the tides, accept every idea as equally valid, allow everything to be true--make no value judgments, believe in nothing, and blind yourself to the difference between right and wrong. Only when you care about nothing will you find peace. Of course, most of us will only be able to care about nothing when we die, so instead we seek control. Order. Peace. But order is not peace, is it? What is order except the wall we build around chaos, the dam we must constantly patch and repair, the war we wage every day for some semblance, some veneer, of control. We say we want sense, to know what the rules are, but what we really seek is understanding, and the ability to step confidently into the street, without having to look both ways, knowing we'll reach the other side because the rushing traffic will flow around us. But God's having none of that, is he? So much for order. So much for peace. Enjoy the ride. -- V/R SangerM