We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2010 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/friendly_fire_g.html Fri, 06 Jan 2012 18:38:56 Z Movable Type 4.12 en Copyright 2012 http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification This is back in the news, the HUD tape now being broadcast on the MSM. A couple of comments vis-a-vis the text of the article reproduced below: The incident occurred just seven days into the war as two pilots were nearing the end of a two-hour mission to destroy rocket launchers and artillery from former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein's 6th Armored Division. The pilots were flying "tankbusters," jets whose prime mission is to destroy tanks. Well, no, the prime mission of the Hog is not to be "tankbusters" but I chalk that up to general reporter cluelessness...not a big deal,... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/friendly_fire_g.html http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/friendly_fire_g.html Tue, 06 Feb 2007 11:22:14 -0600 "This sounds remarkably like a political shakedown - i.e., some Euro leftists in Britain upset about the war are going after our guys in this fashion because they know we can't possibly prevent every battlefield accident. Portraying Americans as out of control cowboys is a standard tactic of that crowd, as is generating fresh outrage about old combat realities." The old bollocks! The fact is we in Britain are pissed off being involved in a war whose prime concern is US oil supplies, and the lining of Bush/Runsfeld/Cheney's pockets! http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/friendly_fire_g.html#comment-56386 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/friendly_fire_g.html#comment-56386 Thu, 08 Feb 2007 18:49:50 -0600 "it's clear they were trying to distinguish the bad guys from the friendlies"?!!! They weren't trying very hard! They mentioned 'orange markings' several times but helped each other to come to the conclusion that they were 'orange rockets'! Yet another instance of gung ho amatuer ANG american pilots not wanting to RTB with unexpended stores. The US embassy spokesman said it was clear the pilots were 'contrite'; I couldn't hear it. Worried that they were in trouble 'we're in jail dude', quite possibly. Although why? No inquiry (was there really one held?) has ever penalised an american for killing allied troops. For those of you with short memories, the majority of British deaths in the first gulf way were caused by american 'friendly fire'. The attempted withholding of the cockpit tapes, and the continued refusal of the american authorities to co-operate with the inquest just confirms our impression of cowardice and ultimate disrespect of the US military/political body. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/friendly_fire_g.html#comment-56385 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/friendly_fire_g.html#comment-56385 Thu, 08 Feb 2007 18:45:32 -0600 "it's clear they were trying to distinguish the bad guys from the friendlies"?!!! They weren't trying very hard! They mentioned 'orange markings' several times but helped each other to come to the conclusion that they were 'orange rockets'! Yet another instance of gung ho amatuer ANG american pilots not wanting to RTB with unexpended stores. The US embassy spokesman said it was clear the pilots were 'contrite'; I couldn't hear it. Worried that they were in trouble 'we're in jail dude', quite possibly. Although why? No inquiry (was there really one held?) has ever penalised an american for killing allied troops. For those of you with short memories, the majority of British deaths in the first gulf way were caused by american 'friendly fire'. The attempted withholding of the cockpit tapes, and the continued refusal of the american authorities to co-operate with the inquest just confirms our impression of cowardice and ultimate disrespect of the US military/political body. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/friendly_fire_g.html#comment-56384 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/friendly_fire_g.html#comment-56384 Thu, 08 Feb 2007 18:43:58 -0600 "it's clear they were trying to distinguish the bad guys from the friendlies"?!!! They weren't trying very hard! They mentioned 'orange markings' several times but helped each other to come to the conclusion that they were 'orange rockets'! Yet another instance of gung ho amatuer ANG american pilots not wanting to RTB with unexpended stores. The US embassy spokesman said it was clear the pilots were 'contrite'; I couldn't hear it. Worried that they were in trouble 'we're in jail dude', quite possibly. Although why? No inquiry (was there really one held?) has ever penalised an american for killing allied troops. For those of you with short memories, the majority of British deaths in the first gulf way were caused by american 'friendly fire'. The attempted withholding of the cockpit tapes, and the continued refusal of the american authorities to co-operate with the inquest just confirms our impression of cowardice and ultimate disrespect of the US military/political body. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/friendly_fire_g.html#comment-56383 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/friendly_fire_g.html#comment-56383 Thu, 08 Feb 2007 18:42:37 -0600 "it's clear they were trying to distinguish the bad guys from the friendlies"?!!! They weren't trying very hard! They mentioned 'orange markings' several times but helped each other to come to the conclusion that they were 'orange rockets'! Yet another instance of gung ho amatuer ANG american pilots not wanting to RTB with unexpended stores. The US embassy spokesman said it was clear the pilots were 'contrite'; I couldn't hear it. Worried that they were in trouble 'we're in jail dude', quite possibly. Although why? No inquiry (was there really one held?) has ever penalised an american for killing allied troops. For those of you with short memories, the majority of British deaths in the first gulf way were caused by american 'friendly fire'. The attempted withholding of the cockpit tapes, and the continued refusal of the american authorities to co-operate with the inquest just confirms our impression of cowardice and ultimate disrespect of the US military/political body. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/friendly_fire_g.html#comment-56382 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/friendly_fire_g.html#comment-56382 Thu, 08 Feb 2007 18:42:02 -0600 Trias, Problem is, there are bits where you don't know who's talking to whom. The tape records everything you say into the mask. It does not distinguish between outgoing and intercom only and it does not distinguish between VHF-FM/AM transmissions and UHF. The radio you use is dependant upon which way you press the mic button and there are a couple of places where it may be that one party did not hear the other party's question/comment. I'll have to take a look at it tomorrow to try to clarify what I'm trying to say. Not making excuses for 'em and Popov 36's attacks are made without final clearance, but I could be wrong...OR...the particular CAS type didn't require a final "Cleared hot." call (in some situations close control is not a requisite to employing weapons)...as I said, need to read it a little more closely. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/friendly_fire_g.html#comment-56319 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/friendly_fire_g.html#comment-56319 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 21:34:44 -0600 Trias - go ahead and fill in the blanks. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/friendly_fire_g.html#comment-56318 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/friendly_fire_g.html#comment-56318 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 21:12:32 -0600 Instapilot. The video and transcript can clear up many of your questions. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/friendly_fire_g.html#comment-56317 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/friendly_fire_g.html#comment-56317 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 20:48:40 -0600 Heh. AW1 Tim just made the target list. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/friendly_fire_g.html#comment-56310 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/friendly_fire_g.html#comment-56310 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 19:19:37 -0600 Comrades, I think that a better solution is to return the Air Force to the US Army. There is no valid reason for the United States to maintain an Air Force as a seperate branch. The Navy can handle the ICBM's, Space Command, etc. The Army can have all of the CAS it wants. They can have the Strategic Bombers forces as well. Sounds to me like a win/win all around. Respects, http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/friendly_fire_g.html#comment-56309 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/friendly_fire_g.html#comment-56309 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 18:12:30 -0600 This sounds remarkably like a political shakedown - i.e., some Euro leftists in Britain upset about the war are going after our guys in this fashion because they know we can't possibly prevent every battlefield accident. Portraying Americans as out of control cowboys is a standard tactic of that crowd, as is generating fresh outrage about old combat realities. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/friendly_fire_g.html#comment-56303 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/friendly_fire_g.html#comment-56303 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 14:53:07 -0600 Maybe no CAS with coalition forces is the answer. I think that particular solution is the equivalent of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Many coalition partners of the U.S. haven't got CAS assets that can integrate with you guys. If you're going to have coalitions at all, everybody needs to support each other. Pull the CAS, and you're crippling your military coalition. Btw, here's a link to the transcript.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/friendly_fire_g.html#comment-56302 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/friendly_fire_g.html#comment-56302 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 14:38:12 -0600 I thought the worst part is when they wanted "justice" for the death. We aren't talkinga about civilians playing with guns and accidently shooting somebody or a trigger happy police officer or an outright felonious murderer wacking some innocent who stopped to gas at the local convenience store and ended up in the middle of a robbery. We're talking about combat. Though I understand the need to hold officers accountable for neglect or failure of command, I don't understand how this is "justice" for a death that basically occured in combat. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/friendly_fire_g.html#comment-56300 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/friendly_fire_g.html#comment-56300 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 13:27:30 -0600