We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2010 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html Sat, 24 Mar 2012 15:43:51 Z Movable Type 4.12 en Copyright 2012 http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification This actually has a little relevance to a thread-meme-topic-thingy very recently, but that will likely not help any one...:-) Go for it. SangerM... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html Thu, 08 Feb 2007 03:02:14 -0600 William: Cool. The SOTAS was designated the JUH-1, I never heard of the JH-1, but that's not a surprise. And yes SOTAS was the one with the skids that raised, and the SLAR boom beneath it. The boom rotated and the junk in the back fed ground target data via datalink to a ground station. SOTAS was the sytem that grew up to be JSTARS. The one at Hanou was the V Corps unit, IIRC. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56428 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56428 Fri, 09 Feb 2007 19:22:14 -0600 > No, I wasn't snarking your advancing years. I was referring to the SOTAS and our discussion about .... I knew that. I was just referring to the sentence the SOTAS comment was in, and I out-clevered myself 'cause that was the point of the sentence that followed: "thinking it would be a curiosity.... It wasn't and took him oh, zero.5 seconds to ID it." Anyway, not overly sensitive, just frappin' tired. I have been at this keyboard for weeks, and miles to go before I sleep, miles to go before I sleep (and not more than 3-5 hours of that a night for a couple of weeks). You'd think I get too tired to do this stuff here, but it's really a nice break for my brain. And as for theses, yeah, I sure stepped in this pile 'o sheets (xls, of course :-) Sunday it's a midterm on the UN and all of it's gooey goodness. oh boy http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56427 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56427 Fri, 09 Feb 2007 19:16:02 -0600 Sanger, Our two mission aircraft were designated JH-1H, only difference between them and the EH-1 or QF were the consoles and components. Your SOTAS, if I'm thinking of the correct aircraft, were easy to spot with their high cross tubes and big box under the belly (same shape as under a Mohawk?). The only time I have ever seen a SOTAS was on that Reforger exercise; I think at Hanou. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56416 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56416 Fri, 09 Feb 2007 16:10:04 -0600 No, I wasn't snarking your advancing years. I was referring to the SOTAS and our discussion about how fast it would get id'd - a contention supported by William's comment. Geez yer sensitive today! 8^) Must be... wait [sniff, sniff] There it is! I smell theses! http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56415 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56415 Fri, 09 Feb 2007 16:09:58 -0600 > They didn’t have any room for guns, or ropes, and other such things, which amused the morally sick and terminally wicked. And your point is? You say that like it's a bad thing... And John, I assume you are referring to the old-guy comment? ha ha. Hmmph. William: I was assigned to one of the SOTAS units, and I sent John a picture of one, thinking it would be a curiosity.... It wasn't and took him oh, zero .5 seconds to ID it. That's why I went with the QF interior for the Whatzis. But I have to ask.. When you say JH-1, are you talking about SOTAS? If so, those were not upgraded to QF, they were a completly different system. I was the NCOIC of a QF Platoon that was task attached to the VII Corps SOTAS company. Talk about an odd setup. And BTW, I was in the 1AD for REFORGER 78, but in a tank unit. We kicked 1Cav butt!! In fact, I literally ran over with my jeep and trailer the PSG from one 1CAV mech inf. platoon. They had surrounded us and I wasn't up for being captured, so I floored it. He didn't move fast enough. Oops. TINS!! It's a lot longer story, and there were mitigating circumstances, and NO I most likely wouldn't have done it on purpose, and he only got a little hurt, and everybody (And I mean EVERYBODY, including the MP Desk Sgt at Illisheim, asked me "Why didn't you back p over him!?) Man, THAT was a great reforger! V/R http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56414 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56414 Fri, 09 Feb 2007 15:38:58 -0600 Sanger - re: William's comment... SNERK! William - inside joke between Sanger and I, and not making fun of you. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56412 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56412 Fri, 09 Feb 2007 13:18:59 -0600 Sanger, My first exposure to the MI types was actually on that systems granddad. I crewed the slick (UH-IH) for the 522MI Quick Fix PLT for Reforger “78” when they were flying the JH-1. After Reforger we returned to Ft. Hood and the JH-1’s went to be upgraded to the EH-1H. Didn’t work on them again until I transitioned to Blackhawk’s in “84” with the 101st and then 7th Army, 5th Corp, 11th Group, 1st INF, 11th BDE, 12th BDE, and finally back to the 101st. Though I would bend wrenches on anything, for anybody, I tried to stay away from MI, C&C, MEDIVAC, and VOLCANO systems. They didn’t have any room for guns, or ropes, and other such things, which amused the morally sick and terminally wicked. If you want to find out how many old guy's are out there throw up a picture of an old SOTAS Huey. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56411 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56411 Fri, 09 Feb 2007 12:40:51 -0600 MajMike, I worked for a contractor by that point (1988-1989). We were in Warrenton, but were in direct support of the QF PM at VHF. I really didn't know may people there, and those I met were all customers, so I didn't get to know any of them nearly well enough to remember. I was the TB/QF interoperability guru, and spent time doing training dev and "pro from Dover" stuff in support of fielding efforts. Mostly traveled a lot... V/R http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56410 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56410 Fri, 09 Feb 2007 10:19:15 -0600 I hate google when it's used against me... Actually, I was expecting that, which is why I tried for the extended question of related systems... Left side is for Direction Finding (DF), at the time of that system, if you talked for around 8 seconds on any radio within the freq. range, an operator could place your location within reasonable certainty to within a klik or two of your actual location on the ground. If you talked longer, the error probability diminished. Because the aircraft could take multiple lines of bearing (LOBs) in a few meters and hundreds in a few dozen meters, it was basically doing triangulation by itself. Very fast, and fairly accurate. Not good enough at the time to call for small area fires, but after a few minutes, certainly enough to put rounds close enough to make them stop talking... The results of the DF shot would be displayed on the plasma as an oval, with a center point, LOBs to the target area, and 8 digit milgrid adjusted for declination etc.... Added to that was a networking capability, first with other A/C, and (later) with the ground based system that used the same basic components. In the A/C network, up to 3 could be linked so that any DF request on any bird would cause each one to shot LOBs and report those back to the requesting system. These would be integrated and displayed for the operator. As you would expect, the accuracy increased a LOT when this was used. The link to the ground system was called interoperability mode. That was to the Trailblazer (TB) EW system, which by the time this version of QF was fielded, consisted of 5 track mounted shelters, each containing 2 operator positions that looked a lot like the one in the pic. TB was a networked division level DF system. When any operator DF'd a target, all the systems on line would shoot a LOB to the emitter and report the data back to the requesting system and all of this would e displayed on the screen. The 5 subsystems were usually placed about 10-15 klicks apart about 5-10 klicks behind the FEBA. In interop-mode with QF, up to nine systems could be networked (albeit not always easily) so that any operator at any DF POS could request LOBs from the network. And bear in mind, at this point there would be up to 13 operators along a Div front tracking and reporting about scores of targets at a time. Even so, the system was fast and fairly accurate. All DF operators had a variety of electronic search and few management tools, though a lot of it was still analog or early-version digital. By today's standards, this stuff is truly primitive, and I am not exaggerating. Ultimately the reporting link (which was done via encrypted HF using RATT type protocols) was networked with the ASAS. so that target info data could be transmitted as a package of reports and data and dumped directly into the early version of a 'fused' intel system. The right side was actually the meat of the early QF. It was the TLQ-17. A very powerful, very versatile comms jammer that in QF at least, could put out up to 500W of radiated comms killing power! The system could scan the entire freq spectrum in seconds, and could be programmed to lock on specific freqs and jam those whenever they were found to be active. It could emit a variety of signals, from basic noise to deceptive morse and it was extremely effective. On one exercise in '85 I think it was, the 1AD was faced against a Bde of the 3rd AD. Supposedly, our 3 A/C platoon disrupted the comms of that Bde. enough for the CO of that Bde to insist we be taken out of the game--we weren't. We did that to them for 3 days. Of course, the constraints of the game made it easier, but then no one was shooting at them so maybe not. They were deployed along the Czech border as the red forces and the 1AD was in pseudo GDP positions. They also were using call words instead of normal US stuff, so it made it easy for us to ID them, and there wasn't much crypto in use at the time, (though we ID American crypto and with judicious and careful application, we could and did force people into the red, where they often forgot they were ...) To me, this side of the mission was the most fun, but we didn't get to indulge as often. Both sides of the A/C had very good search and ID capabilities, and when tied in with the other EW systems in the DIV (Russ's Turkey-32 [TRQ-32] and TACJAM], all sorts of target data was being collected and passed around... BTW, the TLQ-17 was also jeep mounted, but not quite as powerful there, Whereas it's big brother, TACJAM was a kickbutt jamming system able to "do" three freqs at the same time with a lot of power. Of course, this stuff broke a lot, and the interconnectivity was often not, but when it worked it was a wonder to be part of.... And that was at the dawn of the integrated electronic warfare age. You can imagine (if you don't know) what it must be like now. I'll try to post some pics of the various iterations of the systems next week some time. Also, more about the fixed-wing Big Brother version of these called Guardrail. AND finally, ALL of that was unclassified and can be found in a variety of open sources. Jane's used to be the best. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56409 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56409 Fri, 09 Feb 2007 10:09:37 -0600 Sanger: you were at Vint Hills? i betcha you knew my oldest brother. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56408 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56408 Fri, 09 Feb 2007 09:55:43 -0600 what it says here.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56402 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56402 Fri, 09 Feb 2007 06:01:26 -0600 Man, oh man. I was almost selected for QuickFix, until they decided I was too tall for flight status. I ended up with the Turkey-32 and the TACJAM. Good times.... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56401 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56401 Fri, 09 Feb 2007 03:06:08 -0600 Ok... Not bad BCR, but not quite close... Dangling cables are for headphones (aviation helmets--we were aviation crewmembers, I got my CM wings on an earlier version). Big black square on left side is a 10" orange plasma display for showing results of operator actions. Lots of the rest of the stuff on that side is intercom and coms links for air to ground and crew talking, also separate freqs for the network... Most of the stuff just above the keyboard is for fine tuning and searching... Right side is a distinct system, completely different mission, albeit with similar working aids and in the same environment. The two sides do not share data, nor connect, though the operators do. Again, complementary, but different missions. The right one is more technical (operator has a lot more tools for the work at hand). And it is not a passive system like the left hand one. In the first version, the right hand system was the primary one, the left side was not nearly as capable. And now for the really big clue... There was both a ground version (in several iterations) and a fixed wing version (sort of) of the left side, and a ground version of the right side. On the ground, these two systems never deployed together... And William, did you actually work on these? If so, where, might I ask? And PS, Blackhawk... This stuff in some ways predated the PC. This version was from '88 or '89 (I was a contractor working for Vint Hill Farms by this time), but I worked on the earlier version of this in the early 80s, and helped with the OT-III in 79! In fact, VINSON stuff was so new then that there were only 6 or 8 KY-37s available to us for the OT (that's all there were for our use on Ft. Huachuca) and our 33S crypto mech toasted two of them because the audio and power connectors used the same exact cannon plugs... oops.) That was before the color coding. I won't drag this out too long, but I'd like to see if anyone can piece it all together. The clues are all here... V/R http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56398 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56398 Fri, 09 Feb 2007 00:10:17 -0600 hmm. Going just on human factors engineering analysis, the leftmost gizmo has a position display. Given the keyboard plus what looks like a numeric keypad on the front pullout component, I'm guessing both coordinate input and programmatic signal selection and manipulation (that is then displayed on the position screen). There is a bit of a dark corner that might be a secondary display for the keyboard input--can't tell. There is also a cable dangling (and possibly plugged in) that might be coming from the rightmost gizmo. Given the small display and lack of keyboard, I'm guessing this is just signal acquisition. Looks like a mondo oscilliscope or lock-in amplifier. SWAG: either a snoop-device for locating specific signals or an early real-time telemetry and imaging system for something like a missile. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56395 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56395 Thu, 08 Feb 2007 21:31:54 -0600 Looks more like my first computer at the academy. Zenith. 8086 processor. But you're missing the twin floppy drives. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56393 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56393 Thu, 08 Feb 2007 20:33:11 -0600 Nope, I just fixed the ACFT. I didn't fittle with the nobby things (or jam radio signals or listen to Ivan, or translate) http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56381 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56381 Thu, 08 Feb 2007 18:11:32 -0600 Not an L. But yes, an EH-60A Blackhawk, or as XBradTC wrote an EH-60 QuickFix 2. Excellent! That wasn't as hard as I'd hoped it would be, so can you fellows tell me what the two different subsystems are and what they do? Port POS is ? and is related to what other systems; Starboard POS is ? and is related to what other system http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56374 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56374 Thu, 08 Feb 2007 16:18:44 -0600 Yeah, i think it's the inside of a EH-60 Quick Fix2. But that's just a WAG. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56367 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56367 Thu, 08 Feb 2007 13:42:34 -0600 Hmmm, U.S., Army, Helicopter, Sikorsky product, H-60 airframe, possibly "A", don't think its "L", so how about an EH-60A Blackhawk. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56363 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56363 Thu, 08 Feb 2007 12:31:53 -0600 AW1 Tim: Ha! Not russian, but the same Zinc Chromate interior color that every US shelter, M-113 APC, and all EW equipment racks got painted. An aircraft, yes, however. Eric: not a RATT rig, though in the BIG brother (Corps level) version of this system, there was a connection to the world via CTTs (Commanders Tactical Terminals). In fact, for the befuddled or bemused, this is indeed one system (by nomenclature) but it is actually two other complete systems combined in one platform. Complementary but completely different battlefield functions. Frankly, folks, this was one cool piece of hardware. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56361 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56361 Thu, 08 Feb 2007 11:32:48 -0600 Too easy. It's the Castle's WHATZIS Central Command Figurer-Outer panel with the WAG Generator Station(to the right). Note computer screen for cropping and distorting the pictures. And y'all thought this was something he did for fun. Ha. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56359 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56359 Thu, 08 Feb 2007 11:27:53 -0600 Holly crud, a RATT rig! http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56356 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56356 Thu, 08 Feb 2007 07:16:41 -0600 Comrade Sanger, Well, just off the top of my head I'd say it's Russian and it from an Aircraft, perhaps a helo. I base that on the color of the equipment casings and the A/C interior, though i may well be wildly off-base here :) respects, http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56355 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/02/a_hitech_whatzi.html#comment-56355 Thu, 08 Feb 2007 07:13:25 -0600