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A gloom and doom moment.

Over at "The Corner" on National Review Online yesterday, they were having an interesting discussion on foreign nationals using military service as an avenue to citizenship. Just go scan the whole day yesterday to catch the discussion. Something Mark Krikorian said caught my attention:

Re: Military Path to Citizenship [Mark Krikorian]

Not only do I agree with Derb that recruiting foreign soldiers (Max Boot has been flacking an American Foreign Legion for a while now; see here) is a terrible idea, I'd go further and ask whether even legal residents who are not yet citizens should be permitted to serve in the military (for instance, see here).

If there's a problem in persuading enough Americans to fill the ranks, then the problem may be that our foreign policy is not be in line with our national character. One of the most important considerations in crafting a response to today's global jihad is whether that response is politically sustainable over the long term — and in a democracy that means whether enough of the public will support it for the many, many, many years the struggle against radical Islam is going to last. The kinds of sustained counterinsurgency and "nation-building" we are attempting in Iraq and Afghanistan, however advisable it may seem on paper, requires the American public to go along with things, for decades to come, that are simply contrary to our national character — like bribing tribal chieftains to kill troublemakers, killing lots and lots of civilians, ripping out the fingernails of bad guys to get them to talk, lying on a scale and with a sang-froid that would make even one of congressmen uncomfortable, and in general the permanent committment of large numbers of troops in very dangerous but very ambiguous situations.

Other countries, with a less moralistic character, may well be capable of sustaining this sort of thing over the long haul. Remember the Rainbow Warrior? The French secret service blew up the Greenpeace ship in New Zealand in 1985 to prevent it from interfering with nuclear tests in Polynesia, killing one of the 12 people aboard. Here, this would have been a big deal; in France no one cared — after all, that's the kind of thing you have to do when you're a Great Power, right? (I don't want to debate whether France is a great power; the point is that the French think they are.) Heck, it seems the brother of the current socialist (socialist) presidential candidate is the one who set the bomb, and no one cares.

My point is not that there's some clear popular will that's going to tell us what strategy to follow, just that if you're going to sail to windward, you at least have to take account of the wind. The difficulty Boot notes in increasing troop levels ought to be a clue that, while we're happy to sign on to kill Saddam or nuke Japan or burn Atlanta (sorry to you Georgians out there), not enough of our people are interested in playing nursemaid to a bunch of crazies to make that a sustainable policy. To ignore that, and call instead for the recruitment of foreign soldiers, stems from the same impulse as Brecht's crack about "dissolving the people and electing a new one" — if the American people aren't interested in signing up for police duty in Araby, lets find people who are.

That brought to mind an exchange I had with Ry, which I was working into a post. It's a bit muddled, but it isn't getting any better with me staring at it, either.

I *was* uncomfortable with the invasion. I don't like to see the US in that mode, absent the obvious provocations. I wasn't happy with Kosovo for the same reason.

Doesn't mean I don't recognize that good can come out of it - but in my heart of hearts, I don't like that role for us, "regime change." Doesn't mean I'm right, and it might well mean I'm not the guy to be President... 8^)

I know the "world is different now" argument *does* apply. That said, it's one thing to go in and kick someone's a$$ because they've obviously done something to you, and quite another to go kill someone because, well, they've talked badly about you, they keep bumping you in the subway, and you know they've keyed your car and TP'd your house, and now, because they said they're going to burn your house down you decide to pre-empt by going over to kill them, and, oops, they're a Hatfield, aren't they, Mr. McCoy? And I understand that "keying your car" and "TP'ing your house" trivializes death and destruction - but in the environment of relations between states, some stuff falls into the realm of "friction" - though if you are one of the molecules in that friction, it hurts.

I'm wary of the unintended consequences.

I do know we aren't "Edwardian and earlier" Britain. We don't do "The Long Game" well, especially if it involves shooting, as the Brits did while building the Empire. We can do the Cold War pretty well, but a seeming never-ending Hot War? Of course, I don't think any major nation, in this kind of media environment, can do so except perhaps China. Taking down a nation like Iraq and rebuilding it into something more like a western democracy is a decades-long process - and whatever it grows into, it's going to look like an Arab/Middle East/Muslim Democracy, not a western-style. And no one, except Imperial Britain, has really interested in the job in that way and over those time-spans. The French, Spanish, Portuguese, Belgians... were all more about stripping the riches and shipping them home (which, ironically, is what we keep getting accused of) than developing markets, which was the Brit interest. Which is one reason why the former Brit colonies are, on the whole, more successful than those places where other colors flew.

Iraq could still tip either way, but I strongly suspect it's gone far more down the path that I thought it would likely go than it did down the path the people who decided on the invasion thought it would go.

This was more than regime change - it was a culture change. And that takes a long time - even when it comes from within, much less is imposed from without.

Unless you go the Carthage, Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan route of death-dealing, which either eliminates the issue by leaving "no stone standing, one on the other," or creates a tipping point. We did neither in Iraq. And we weren't prepared to. We were expecting a response more along the lines of France in 1944 than what we got, which was Germany 1945... without the full imprint of military disaster upon the vanquished, because we weren't able/willing, nor did we want to, inflict the requisite amount of damage.

We essentially expected Saddam's people to rise in revolt. I would note the Germans didn't. And while the French did, in a fashion, after we invaded, they did so to throw out the *foreign* invader. If we had been removing an Iranian-led regime, this would have gone differently, I think. As it is, it's gone somewhat as I expected/feared in very broad terms - and while I'm willing to pay the cost, the US as a people don't have a good track record in this kind of thing... my concern from the get-go. And I don't often publish stuff like this, because the leftoids will seize on it for all the wrong reasons. That, of course, is a major problem with discourse these days - you can't have a chat like this in public, without someone trying to turn it into "See? Throw the bums out and run away!" which is not what I'm saying. But the Army AAR process doesn't work well in the political world. Which is too bad, because it really does do a pretty good job of getting at problems and solutions, and applying the lessons learned to the future. At least in the narrow sense of unit training and event analysis.

Sigh. So, the big guys can't admit to mistakes (and this doesn't matter which party is in power) without it being presented as proof positive that the whole idea was wrong, bad, evil, and in fact, the bums should be impeached and thrown in jail because they didn't do it our way (leave aside that that way hadn't worked either, that's *different*). I live in the belly of the beast. Those "what went right/what went wrong, and how do we do it better" discussions take place all the time - but stay inside, because if we let them slip out, the political opposition misuses the discussions - again, regardless of which party is in power. But if you think there is no internal self-examination going on, or that Rumsfeld completely squashes dissent, you aren't paying attention. LTG Petraeus, who has not always been complimentary of the way things happened during the initial stages of the campaign in Iraq - is in charge of writing Army doctrine and the education system. That's not where you put people to silence them. I'm sure among my military readers we can come up with other examples that are similar - and we can come up with examples of people who *have* been sidelined. My point is - nothing is ever quite as simple as it seems from the outside looking in. But the external environment makes it very difficult to engage in any form of nuanced discussion - and actually, that does lend itself to reinforcing the bubbles - which isn't what we want, is it?

My brief email exchange with Mark Krikorian ended this way:

Me:


Bingo.

Exactly my concerns about us engaging in nation building that gestates from us having destroyed the initial nation, so to speak. Not because it isn't necessarily needful, but because I'm not convinced we'll finish what we start - and if we won't, we shouldn't start.

Cheers,

Jonah's Military Guy

Mark Krikorian's response:

Yes, that's what I was trying to get at -- nation-building and the like may be a great idea in political science class, but if our national character makes it unlikely that we'll be able to stick it out to the end, don't go down that path.

Therein lies the rub. If you're President Clinton, you just go with the herd, and do what the polls tell you. If you're President Bush, you try to lead the herd down a different path.

And, as President Bush is finding out - inertia, especially when a lot of the bigger steers in the herd are stubborn and contrary simply because it's easier to be contrary than offer true enlightened opposition, can be very very hard to deflect.

Sadly - the lesson the political class is likely to take away from it is... leadership is too hard, lets just ride the wave.

Which is *not* how I define their role.

Update: I would note I wrote this *before* I read the Blogfather's piece.

14 Comments

Most everyone I know, including myself has said the same, or at least come to the same conclusion you have. It's like my Dad tried to teach me years ago, you know, back when I thought I knew everything, but didn't know crap. He tried to teach me, that if I started something, to finish it, no matter what or how hard it was. You know, he was right. He also said that what goes around, comes around. Even if it takes years and years. Papa Ray West Texas USA
 
Possibly because most people believe that what has happened in the past 20 or 30 years represents the historical norm. Up here the consensus is that the Canadian Army is a peacekeeping force because that was the emphasis and publicly acknowledged role from 1970 on. Now they are being reminded that peacekeeping is a minor adjunct to the Army's true role, which is to destroy the enemy. 1. So, does history really support your view on nation building? 2. Pardon my snarkiness, but what is this "national chacacter" stuff? Is Mr Carter involved? Cheers
 
The problrm with just "going with the herd" is that the wolves are always hungery and sooner or later they run outof easy kills on the edge of the herd. Likewise "riding the wave" is great fun, but sooner or later the wave hits the shore and anyone still riding the wave does likewise.
 
The problrm with just "going with the herd" is that the wolves are always hungery and sooner or later they run outof easy kills on the edge of the herd. Likewise "riding the wave" is great fun, but sooner or later the wave hits the shore and anyone still riding the wave does likewise.
 
Damn it, need an "edit" feature..
 
John, you are correct in your observations (at least as far as they match mine). Extensive emails between myself and two Army friends lined out just what has occurred. And that was in 2002. Now one of the three has just returned from a stint as an operations officer training the Iraqi Army. His viewpoint is a lot closer than mine, and he still maintains that what we are doing is the right thing, just for the wrong original reasons. We felt in '02 that Saddam was just a sideshow. We were all much more concerned with Iran and North Korea. And now look where we are and who we are looking at. So much for all that. Now, the biggest question is... What to do? I never give much truck to anyone who complains, criticizes, denigrates, etc., but does not have an alternative. I'm still struggling with that one myself.
 
JMH: You poor guy. Here, have a cookie. But ain't that the way of avoiding nasty guilt over being European descendants whose ancestors partook of colonialism? Hunter: Of the two you talked about only DPRK is critical at the moment. Iran is several years off from being at the point DPRK is at. I know the news is playing up Iran huge and scary right now, and it is something to be worried about, but it isn't the big bad wolf standing outside to blow down our house. More like the big bad wolf several valleys over thinking about doing it. DPRK is, well, complicated. Not just because some suspect that they have nucs. As Kartman Jung-IL is learning having something that people know doesn't work is worse than the mystery of having it. If the geo-politics could be solved DPRK would have a new leader tomorrow. I'm willing to let China have DPRK as a client state with a puppet gov't for 50 years more just to get this over---but I'm in the minority on that. And I'm not sure why people say 'wrong reasons' over Iraq. There were over thirty reasons, contained in the whereas statements, given for going. Maybe WMD was the one you cared the most about, but it wasn't the only one nor the only one that mattered. People forget that. Yeah, BG I hear you. Doing stuff half assed is worse than doing nothing at all in many instances, and we're an impatient people. If it ain't over by Christmas we'll change our mind about it. Doing something half assed is worse than even doing the wrong thing. And this is why I can't get to mad at War Historian over at his place because these cultural elements do matter in the realm of warmaking and the study of military history should have room for that. But the biggest thing is what you put at the end: the right thing may not always be the popular thing. People have to have the spine to do right thing regardless of what ostracism they may face for it.
 
I've been reading the posts at the Corner too, and surprised by the air of gloom and general wailing. For one thing, the "we don't have enough troops" meme. First, I thought we were meeting all recruiting goals and have been from the beginning, so how do we not have enough? Also, isn't the number of military under arms fixed by Congress? So if we don't have enough in toto, we need to have them raise the limit and fund them. Perhaps I am missing something that the fine military minds here will point out.
 
OH BCR, you've just opened up a nasty ol' can o' worms. Congress has attempted to raise the maximums. Rumsfeld has fought it. I agree with Rumsfeld. See, at the end of Vietnam there was a big ol' RIF that led to a military much smaller than wise heads(not Congress critter heads) thought was prudent. The same would happen again because we, the public in general, are fickle. That RIF didn't help much in fighting the CW and left us seriuosly wondering if we had enough to fight the Sovs. Thank God we never had to find out. This also plays into what Kerkorian was talking about. It just isn't in line with our liberal minded(classic liberal minded) national nature to want to keep a big military around unless there's a dragon to slay/a Grand Cause to fight. And once the dragon is slain we want to shelve it all again. Was ever thus and will ever be. Also, this was a military that was supposed to be able to handle fighting 1.5 MRC(major regional conflicts). That was what the Clinton team told us and promised. That's not what we got. We're getting yet another rough lesson in 'you get what you pay for.' No more Task Force Smiths? My eye. We'll keep sending out TFS in various forms because we don't want to a) pay for things 'we don't need' b) seem imperialistic/mean. So we'll keep having kids like he who John honored above. Because we never learn to either not be interventionist nor remember/honest what being interventionist really costs we'll have to keep relearning these hard, cruel, costly, and disheartening lessons over and over again. John: I couldn't stand reading Jonah in the LAT yesterday(where I first saw it) and never got around to the end, it's just too depressing to see Jonah doing what Lowry did(though Rich is a good man typically). No, I didn't write to him complaining. He probably got enough hate mail over it without gollum trying to take a chunk out his ankle too. I dislike his 'pottery barn'-esque logic. The 'well, we're there now so we might as well stay' mode of thinking seems bad to me. Anzio. The lesson I took away from Anzio was that when it wasn't worth it you left no matter how many you put into the earth(bad example since Anzio had the strategic picture change on it, but I think you get where I'm trying to go, no?). Seems too much like money pit thinking(well, I already spent X on the house, might as well spend 2X on it). Either the reasons for going are good enough to remain or they aren't/never were in my mind. Otherwise we're on a trip to avenge each and every person we lost over there. Throwing good after bad. Either the 30+ reasons in the Authorization for the USe of Force are worth staying or they aren't. A good commander/strategist doesn't stay just because he initially got involved. If it ain't worth it then it just ain't. I think it was. I still think it is. "well, we're there." just seems like think beer to me. That doesn't feed the bulldog. But, we still like the Blog Father, precious. He's a good guy who writes what his conscience, mind, and the Couch allow him to. I just disagree with him this time.
 
Leaving aside a good chunk of your discussion - in your Task Force Smith comments I think you really really really really really are way way way way way off the mark. We can do any single fight. We can do any hot war. Task Force Smith was about not being able to do even that. Where we have trouble is *two* hot fights, or a hot fight and a long running nation-building exercise ala Iraq. If we were to send ground forces to a second Korean War, they wouldn't be TF Smiths. We might not have as many as we would like - but they would be far more capable units than the one Smith took up the road. Just sayin'.
 
I'm not pushing for a direct analogy here. TFS was a demi-battalion sent to slow up the advance of divisions of DPRK forces. But the main point is we sent stuff incapabable of doing the job that was asked of it. Is that what we're asking todays military to do? Jobs it is incapable of doing(either from lack of funding/manpower/doctrine(that whole back half thing and dislike of COIN and nation building(thanx so much Powell)) or lack of will)? I happen to think so. That's close enough for me(and yes, ry does do hyperbole).
 
Maybe you all have a window on why the Brits can be so cynical. I've been assured by military people both here and elsewhere that the US has the will and the ability to win despite my doubts. This read doesn't seem that way at all. Keep in mind this wasp nest will not stop it's attacks when or if the US leaves. So leaving is not much of a fix. It might well fix Iraq but probably not the global situation nor the attacks on US soil. Being a good guy is harder than it sounds. It doesn't work in a dragon slaying I'm a hero way especially when you're slaying rodents.
 
Trias - The US Military has the will and ability (I believe) to win in the long run. But the general public, especially those who get sucked in to the media viewpoint, don't necessarily see that we can win. Perception is their reality. Which is why the terrorists work so hard at timing, like the surge in violence timed to help cloud the minds of the american populace in time for our elections. I don't believe in coincidences.
 
Barb I really think you can't disengage the US military from it's citizens to that degree which in my view is actually a good thing. If the citizens lack the will the military's will is largely over. It will surely loose the will fast if it's not paid to stay there and is ordered home. Remember too the leader of the military is not a regular soldier and that at least in most of the wars i've seen support is needed back home.
 
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