We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2010 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html Sat, 24 Mar 2012 15:48:19 Z Movable Type 4.12 en Copyright 2012 http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification And in many respects, I'm sure that's true. Still, you've all had it easy since I went through the last hard basic in the 70's... U.S. Army trainees take swings at each other during a hand-to-hand combat competition as part of basic combat training at Fort Jackson, S.C., Aug. 9, 2006. (U.S. Air Force photo by Staff Sgt. Stacy L. Pearsall) (Released) Ah, pugil sticks. Now *that* was fun. At least it was if you were a wrestler and noseguard... and no, I don't know why it's a US Air Force photo of BCT troops at Fort Jackson. Army training... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html Wed, 20 Sep 2006 07:46:02 -0600 regularly thats not to say they never do, its just not the normal occurence. Normal occurence, from what I've seen and heard (which of course could be totaly wrong and I accept this) is head down, shoot, move , communicate, repeat. I do think the tactical training is a good thing. Wish we'd had that beyond getting to go to the AP Hill scenario once a month. ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50762 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50762 Sat, 23 Sep 2006 08:18:33 -0600 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50739 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50739 Fri, 22 Sep 2006 12:33:53 -0600 Staff Sgt Pearsall is assigned to USAF 1st Combat Camera Sq. at Charleston, SC. We go to many nearby posts/bases/naval stations to keep up on training when not actually deployed. That's where this photo came from. By the way Stacy was DOD Military Photographer of the Year in 2003 and is featured on this Octobers cover of PINK magazine. Just FYI. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50714 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50714 Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:24:36 -0600 I only fight when I am angry and not to satisfy some man's prurient interests. Men do things to amuse me...not the other way around. You are wrong about BCR, she would be tough but she would not cheat....she has principles. I on the other hand do not. I would cheat. I've never met Kat. However,based on reading her comments and posts I would say she would be tenacious, but again very principled. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50706 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50706 Thu, 21 Sep 2006 01:02:31 -0600 By February '72, we'd pushed the last-ever batch of draftees through the system. During my 13-month stint as a BCT(I) CO, I found that most of the "US" were more motivated and disciplined than the "ER" "NG" and even most of the "RA"--they'd made a commitment to themselves when they made the decision to report for induction rather than boogie across the border. It's painful to admit it, but we shortchanged all six cycles during their training. Skipped the Hygiene films and anti-aircraft fire, zipped through Army Traditions and Field Sanitation, slashed Drill & Ceremonies once we taught them the basics and we filled the saved time with patrolling, booby-traps, personal camouflage, lots more first aid (extra techniques for sucking chest wounds), ambush / counterambush, lots more land nav and adjusting mortar fire. I usually managed to scrounge 500 rounds a month and a Range for Sunday Shoots. Fast-forward to 1987--Flight Planning Room of a Large Army Airfield: "Tuttle...Tuttle...Would your first name be 'Bill' by any chance?" "Yes, as a matter of (*peering at nametape*) fact. Would your first name be 'Spencer' by any chance?" "Yep." (*simultaneously*) "B-6-2!" and "Cripes--you're a Warrant now!" Heh. One of the lads had seen the light and gone to Flight School after his tour. And he said that everybody from his cycle made it through unscathed, and they can probably still spot a punji pit fifteen feet away... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50702 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50702 Thu, 21 Sep 2006 00:19:44 -0600 No, really. I think of the very famous boxing match between Olly North and James Webb, when they were both first-classmen at the Naval Academy. I think that Captain Webb has always felt cheated about that, because North used Psychological Warfare, putting the word out that he had a metal plate in his head as a result of a car crash, and if you hit him really hard he might drop dead right there on the spot. I think that Jim Webb may have thought about that for a long time afterwards, just judging from my reading of his books. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50701 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50701 Wed, 20 Sep 2006 23:03:46 -0600 I betcha BCR would cheat, and win. This opinion has, of course, absolutely nothing to do with the way she re-wired my brain, while she had my body in suspended animation in a back room of a sub-basement at BCR Labs. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50700 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50700 Wed, 20 Sep 2006 22:47:53 -0600 Pugil sticks + SCA instantly makes me think of the fine & funny tale of Duke Vissevald Selkirkssen in Basic Training. (Copied from Google Groups, since the comment bot won't let me link to it...) ------------------ The sergeant was teaching the recruits how to fight with sticks, and the usual routine was for the sergeant to challenge one of the newbies to hit him. The newbie would be completely unable to touch the sergeant, and this would establish the meme of "The Sergeant knows infinitely more than you do and you have to learn to do it his way". However, Vis succeeded in hitting the sergeant pretty well. They sparred for a while, and the training officer up on a tower (watching all the various units down on the field training) called down, "Hey, Sergeant. Ask that guy if he's in something called the Society for Creative Anachronism." Sergeant calls back, "He says he is. What's that mean." "It means you can't hit him." Sergeant pauses a moment, and then calls up, "He says he's a Knight. What does that mean?" "It means they can't hit him either." ------------------------------ http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50695 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50695 Wed, 20 Sep 2006 19:47:27 -0600 "Who's gonna put money on which female Denizen to be left standing after the pummelling is over? Anyone? Anyone?" I got a fiver on BCR. That Lady loves here crowbar. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50689 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50689 Wed, 20 Sep 2006 17:11:29 -0600 Hunter - you obviously laid a good foundation. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50688 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50688 Wed, 20 Sep 2006 16:22:46 -0600 I can make you tap out with my thumb. One way or another. ;) http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50687 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50687 Wed, 20 Sep 2006 16:13:18 -0600 I used to love watching American Gladiator. yeah. I'm a dork... but it looked like SO much fun!! http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50684 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50684 Wed, 20 Sep 2006 15:17:37 -0600 ...now qualifying in the prone supported, prone unsupported, and kneeling. Oh, and in IBA with plates. Glad to see that change made - and that it's being implemented early. Plus the AIT requal -- makes sense even to me. "Train the way you fight, Fight the way you train"! As to battles with Pugil sticks -- I'd be game, sounds like fun ;-) Like Gladiator Jousting, or even Sumo Wrestling? ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50680 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50680 Wed, 20 Sep 2006 14:22:53 -0600 ...now qualifying in the prone supported, prone unsupported, and kneeling. Oh, and in IBA with plates. Glad to see that change made - and that it's being implemented early. Plus the AIT requal -- makes sense even to me. "Train the way you fight, Fight the way you train"! As to battles with Pugil sticks -- I'd be game, sounds like fun ;-) Like Gladiator Jousting, or even Sumo Wrestling? ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50679 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50679 Wed, 20 Sep 2006 14:22:50 -0600 The comment in the article about leading by example with regards to physical fitness caught my eye. The most inspirational figure I saw during OSUT at Ft. Knox was a reserve LT (we had several Reserve/Guard outfits take over our company during our cycle -- it was their AT). During our first road march, he constantly ran laps around our company. Both ways. With a pack and all. Never seemed winded. We were hit with CS at one point, and after we unmasked I realized that I had left my glasses on the ground back about a klick. So I fell out when we got back to that point, along with 3 drill sergeants, to look for them. No joy. Then the LT, on one of his laps, and to whom I had not spoken about my glasses, came running by, went directly to a spot about 20 meters from where we were, picked up my glasses, handed them to me, and jogged off. I looked at him like he was an Angel of the Lord. Later, when one of my Privates threatened to fall out (I was the Plt Guide), the LT was right there in an instant, making sure I was taking care of my man. That was in '89. I hope he's an LTC by now, leading an armor battalion. I never even knew his name. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50678 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50678 Wed, 20 Sep 2006 14:12:25 -0600 jim b walks through and looks around ... Oh shucks that's nothing I know a bunch of women who have tapped out guys. jim b exits stage right. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50676 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50676 Wed, 20 Sep 2006 13:27:34 -0600 Combatives (actual hand-to-hand, jujitsu style, not the pugils in the pic) is a fun activity, too. During my tenure, we actually had one female force a male to tap out. Great stuff. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50674 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50674 Wed, 20 Sep 2006 13:03:12 -0600 I was on the trail at Ft Leonard Wood in '88 - '90 training future Combat Engineers. There were three days during training that a DS would probably have given up his drill pay: Pugil Stick day, NBC chamber day, and Day One (company reception). My first cycle as a DS was in late spring '88. In my first platoon of trainees was Paul Ray Smith. Essayons "Let Us Try" http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50673 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50673 Wed, 20 Sep 2006 12:44:39 -0600 dicke (that as a platoon leader trainee, I got busted out of his hat for pressuring trainees for introductions to their girlfriends and attempting to "borrow" money from) most of the D.I's were darn serious about teaching us the skills many of us were likely to need in the near future. I even encountered one on my way out of VN and walked over to thank him for obviously having done something right (how many D.I.'s had that experience, I wonder...?) This got even better at AIT, the NCO Academy LP course, and the M551 Sheridan school (where there was an unofficial dual curriculum...one for those bound for Germany and one for those bound for VN...and we knew who we were...) I don't know what Army "doctrine" was regarding training, but I had some darn fine instructors who focused on the real issues (with flair and brutal methods sometimes, but always with a purpose) and one who went toe-to-to with a battalion cmdr. during BCT regarding a dis-service to our company issue during bivuac. It was tough, but effective. ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50672 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50672 Wed, 20 Sep 2006 12:10:47 -0600 I'm a lover, not a fighter, Jim.... as John has noted in his analysis of the Denizene Q-Tip match outcome. My money would be on Kat. She's one mean mutha when she wants to be. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50671 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50671 Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:50:43 -0600 Well, it's certainly more than *I* coulda provided! But we still had tougher BT back inna day* *Bullshite. It was also full of stupid crap, though nowhere near as bad as the late 80's/90's crap. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50669 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50669 Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:26:20 -0600 Based on the ones I met - I predict the Championship will be between Bad Cat Robot and Kat. They've got the killer instinct in their eyes. Princess Crabby could be a contender, but I don't see the Princess engaging. She'd seduce a sailor to be her Champion. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50667 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50667 Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:23:34 -0600 I figured you were baiting me John... PT was changed right when I took command, so I never actually commanded with the 'old' standard. But I did have old stats from my predecessor as far as things like recruits lost to injury-mostly stress fractures of various types-and those numbers DID go down after the PT program changed. And Privates now get more and more realistic BRM training than they used to. Change 4 to FM 3-22.9 -which won't even be official until next month-was being implemented at Ft Jackson before I left 15 months ago. This change integrates the EST 2000 into BRM (adding a full day in the process) and changes qual fire, eliminating the foxhole position, now qualifying in the prone supported, prone unsupported, and kneeling. Oh, and in IBA with plates. Privates now do all their tactical training in flak vests-maybe even IBA, but flak vests were all we had when I left. The guys in the Sandboxes needed the IBA more. First aid training is much expanded-and now includes all sorts of stuff learned and developed since ground combat started in Afghanistan and Iraq. And privates now get issued weapons on about Day 3 or 4 and take them with them everywhere except the shower. They get blanks after BRM qual, and lock and load whenever they leave the battalion area. And an ND gets an instant trip back to Day 1 of training, to start all over. Does smoking still happen? Damn skippy. And so, on occasion, does the In Your Face, Top of the Drill's Lungs, Questioning Your Ancestry ass chewing. Hell, I did it a couple of times as a commander, when a private did something egregiously stupid right in front of me, like the time one decided to rest her head on the end of her rifle barrel during my EO class. One thing the article doesn't mention is that privates are now required to re-qualify with the rifle during AIT. And in AIT, it's the way the regular Army does it-go to the zero range, zero, march to the qual range, qualify. Not the two and a half week drawn out process done during Basic. They've added tactical training-done of Saturdays-to AIT as well. That enought for ya, John? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50666 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50666 Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:17:10 -0600 I see that the ones in the photo above are Wimmins: So I recommend at the next Castle training get together Bill referee's the Castle Wimmins as they suit up and wack at each other with giant Q-tips. Who's gonna put money on which female Denizen to be left standing after the pummelling is over? Anyone? Anyone? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50665 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50665 Wed, 20 Sep 2006 10:52:43 -0600 member of the SCA...]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50664 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50664 Wed, 20 Sep 2006 10:47:43 -0600 let him do the pugil sticks. He was seriously bummed!]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50663 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50663 Wed, 20 Sep 2006 10:43:29 -0600 I threw this up because I figured it might get some responses, Jim. And I suspect more of them will be like yours. Be interesting to see what former BCT Company Commander Heartless Lib says if he pokes his head in. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50658 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50658 Wed, 20 Sep 2006 09:10:48 -0600 Were-Kitten briefed on September 20, 2006 08:10 AM Hard is good too, you know. blink .. blink blink. jim b keeps moving.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50657 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50657 Wed, 20 Sep 2006 08:44:21 -0600 "Back then, he said, training included a form of hazing Soldiers commonly call "smoking". Gaskin called it unnecessary." "Back then" must have stopped like 5 Sept 2006, cause they were still doing it for the class that graduated at the end of August 2006. Not that I am complaining it will always exist, and I think it should, but this is simply an example of an Officer PR thingie doing that "La lalalalalal I can't hear you thing." He has no idea what is going on down in the platoons. And about that worst thing that could happen to me is to find out some soldier goes to combat and something happens to him because of lack of training statement. I think this guy needs someone else to take a look at his training especially the rifle range part. Attention to detail in magazine maintenance as well as allowing nothing to interrupt the little amount of time a soldier has on the range to learn riflecraft. (Like interrupting that time for a pompus change of command thingie). What is going on is not in accordance with what this guys is saying is going on. I write this because I want things to be the best possible.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50655 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50655 Wed, 20 Sep 2006 08:28:01 -0600 Hard is good too, you know. (oh, come on... you had to know I was gonna go there.) http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50654 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50654 Wed, 20 Sep 2006 08:10:14 -0600 Hey, I still get chills whenever I hear the term "Brown Boot Army". LOL http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50653 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/09/its_not_softer_its_better.html#comment-50653 Wed, 20 Sep 2006 08:01:30 -0600