Comments for Old pilots, bold pilots...

Old pilots, bold pilots...

2006-06-18T14:49:54Z

What's odd about this pic?

If you want to see it a little clearer - click here.

Just in case you really aren't clear... click here.

Yep. That's a B-52 doing a low(!)-level flyby of an aircraft carrier.

It only looks like its about to dive into the ocean.

One of the odd things about the B-52 is that it flies in a nose down attitude in level flight.

Just like all three aircraft in this pic are in level flight.

I'll let the aviators chime in and explain all the fiddly details.

I'm just impressed with that bomber pilot's need to impress the Navy.

We may never be able to win another war because of flaccid political will/extreme dumb-a$$ decisions among the politicians or the failure of the political class to convince the People the benefits outweigh the costs - but we're not going to lose one on the battlefield as long we're willing to to compete internally like this.

Regardless of what you excessively purple people think.

Comment from Navy Puke on 2006-06-20

2006-06-20T05:31:05Z

I never saw a Buff (Big Ugly Fat F''ker) when I was on the Lone Ranger (BB-62)or the Bonnie Dick (CVA-31)when I was deployed in 68-70, But. In 63 as a kid I was the sole witness on the end of the runway when the ready alert birds scrambled at Kincheloe AFB in the UP of Michigan. All 5 B-52H's were supposed to be gone in 3 Minutes of the klaxon sounding. It took under 2. The spacing on the runway was less than 400 ft as all 5 were ducks in a row at full military power rolling and into the air in less than 5000 ft. In four minutes the sky was empty. That same year some bored SAC BUFF boy took his bird under the Mackinac Bridge (ship under clearance 155 ft.) They never caught him. I still think it was my Dad.

Comment from Justthisguy on 2006-06-19

2006-06-20T03:18:07Z

Not that I would ever read that, in a manual way. I'm saving myself for the Sweety. Honest. No Kiddin. No sh*t!

Comment from Justthisguy on 2006-06-19

2006-06-20T03:09:01Z

There's no necessity for blued balsa if one has sufficient manual skills. RTMF. (Read the manual f*%#ing)

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2006-06-19

2006-06-20T02:28:13Z

Blued Balsa!

Comment from Justthisguy on 2006-06-19

2006-06-20T02:13:09Z

Oh, yeah, Armstrong Whitworth Whitley was famous for appearing to be diving when flying level. Something to do with engineering trade-offs having to do with length of landing gear, or something, but they set the wing at a big angle of incidence, relative to the fuselage. On flying into the ground: People who build model airplanes are familiar with Sig balsa. Glenn Sig(afoose) and his wife, Hazel, used to have matched Pitts Specials, which they flew at airshows together. Glenn was doing rolls at zero feet or something like that,caught a wingtip on the ground and rolled himself and plane into a flaming strewage of wreckage. The kit for the R/C scale Pitts Special disappeared from the Sig product line immediately. Can't really blame Hazel. I think about moving to Montezuma, Iowa. There are two cool places at which to work, there. One is Brownell's, and the other is Sig.

Comment from Chap on 2006-06-19

2006-06-20T02:02:10Z

Well, if the copilot had come to the realization that he was going to die in a fireball in front of his wife and kid, then perhaps the options he had would be put in a little different perspective than the day before the air show. There's a good book called "Lead On" that we were given in school once that talks about such things. If it's time to put one's career on the line, then do so; don't pussyfoot around. But if you're doing it more than every three or four years there's a problem. That makes sense and I've tried to use that idea. I think perhaps the concept kept us alive (or out of deep trouble) once, and kept our towed array working in another, for example. Forceful backup is important but it has to be forceful sometimes. To me the other folks figured it out intellectually but weren't able to see the risk emotionally--they almost knew what they knew but couldn't get through to understanding the danger.

Comment from Justthisguy on 2006-06-19

2006-06-20T01:11:23Z

Thanks for posting the link, Chap; it's in my bookmarks, but haven't remembered to look at it for a while. To generalize, what *does* one do when one's commanding officer actually is a dangerous lunatic? Is the Hornblower method appropriate? (Y'all know about how Captain Sawyer happened to fall down the hatchway. Hornblower never was asked if he, Hornblower, actually pushed him)

Comment from Chap on 2006-06-19

2006-06-20T00:55:05Z

I finally got to look at the photos, Yours look about a decade or two before mine were taken.

Comment from Tony B on 2006-06-19

2006-06-20T00:54:30Z

Holy crap! Is this picture for real? That doesn't leave a lot of margin for error. I have a feeling the wing commander would NOT be happy seeing a photo like this.

Comment from Damon on 2006-06-19

2006-06-19T19:49:16Z

Here are two pictures that I had originals of that someone posted on the web. http://garytakahashi.md/braden/jag3.jpg http://garytakahashi.md/braden/jag6.jpg

Comment from Damon on 2006-06-19

2006-06-19T16:49:17Z

He *Is* flying straight an level, its just that the carrier and photographer are experiencing one of those swells we took in the North Atlantic. I will never forget the experience of walking from aft to bow and noticing that the movement aft was a twisting motion and towards the bow- it was up and down. I thought the ship might break itself in two pieces (and parts of the whole don't float very well). I was on the 'Sinkin Sara' CV-60 at the time... which didn't help me feel any better about it! When I was stationed on Al Masirah in the Gulf doing.. ahhh.. 'stuff' during the first G-war, the Omani Airforce flew their trainers through hangers and have since lost a picture of a guy on a large ladder taking a photo of a Brit Tornado flying BELOW him!

Comment from Chap on 2006-06-19

2006-06-19T16:25:56Z

Can't see the picture at work--they block Fototime--but I'll take a look at home. I've got a BUFF nav here whose desktop background is his plane flying past a carrier deck, from the viewpoint of the carrier. I'll see if I can get details. Bottom line: His flyby was briefed, was part of an exercise, was worked out with the carrier (sorry, man, but it WAS a purple op), risk management in place. Which is as it should be. The B-52 story about the air show crash is a painful lesson about leadership, taking a stand when it's really important, and feeling invulnerable; the guys I work with who served in that squadron have stories that match closely the official after-action lessons learned. Those lessons are heartbreaking.

Comment from cw4(ret)billt on 2006-06-19

2006-06-19T11:43:49Z

For the tail of a BUFF to be the only thing that's above the flight deck is a non-trivial feat... And a radar-avoidance survival skill. But they still haven't perfected the art of zipping along at *true* nap-of-the-earth--although I've had A-7 and A-10 drivers try to play down in the weeds with me and promptly climb back to altitude when they realized that I had tucked in below some overhanging oak limbs and tracking them with the M197...

Comment from lex on 2006-06-19

2006-06-19T06:41:58Z

Verra same guy mighta flown past me own boat, way back in the way-back-when. I was sitting on the starboard side, waiting to get broken down (off chocks and chains) for the launch, when I saw a vertical tail go by on the port side. And naught else. We're only 60 feet high on a carrier deck. For the tail of a BUFF to be the only thing that's above the flight deck is a non-trivial feat...

Comment from Justthisguy on 2006-06-18

2006-06-18T18:45:58Z

Boqui, that would be "aft", the adverb. "Abaft" is the preposition, and "after" is the adjective. I hesitate and shy away from being annoyingly pedantic, but June 18th *is* Autistic Pride Day! You may slap me, if you can find me.

Comment from Justthisguy on 2006-06-18

2006-06-18T18:13:57Z

I can't help thinking of that famous episode of a B-52 pilot who flew just a little bit too low when practicing for an air show, caught a wingtip on the ground in a steep bank, and destroyed himself, the airplane, and all aboard. The video of it is on the Net in lotsa places, the discussion, too. I just imagine what the other guys were thinking, viz. "OMG, the Aircraft Commander is a Dangerous Lunatic, I'd better ej....."

Comment from Boquisucio on 2006-06-18

2006-06-18T18:11:47Z

Hmmm sez Moe: Just like Christie Allie,dat Boyd must be very heavy abaft.

Comment from 74 on 2006-06-18

2006-06-18T17:09:11Z

Oh, and just to put things in scale, its about 80 feet from the flight deck to the waterline on the Ranger.

Comment from 74 on 2006-06-18

2006-06-18T17:08:45Z

Oh, and just to put things in scale, its about 80 feet from the flight deck to the waterline on the Ranger.

Comment from 74 on 2006-06-18

2006-06-18T17:06:10Z

I don't know if that picture was taken in '90, but I remember B-52s doing the same sort of low level fly-byes while I WAS aboard Ranger in the '85-'89 timeframe. Of course the Bears did this sort of thing too--just not so low.

Comment from wolfwalker on 2006-06-18

2006-06-18T16:11:39Z

"but we're not going to lose one on the battlefield as long we're willing to to compete internally like this." Got that right. Note that in Picture #2, the helicopter from which Picture #1 was snapped is visible in the far distance. Trivia note: the aircraft carrier is the USS Ranger, CV-61, retired in 1992. Searching the Web I found a post on a bulletin board, trustworthiness unknown, that said this incident took place during a war-at-sea exercise in spring 1990.

Comment from TmjUtah on 2006-06-18

2006-06-18T15:57:07Z

I saw a flyby just like that from the USS Tarawa, two or three days out of Pearl on the way back home to Pendleton. Looking DOWN from the flight deck to see an aircraft was quite a shock. My kid brother was along on a Tiger Cruise; what a show!