previous post next post  

New Artillery Round, the Saber.

Don't get me wrong, I like all this stuff. But...

Ry sends us this, which he titled "Puff piece for the Artillerist's Soul:

"The relatively simple design of Saber allows it to accurately fly to target with fewer moving parts; making the round highly reliable, very effective and importantly, lower-cost than the competition," said Dave Wise, General Manager, Advanced Weapons, ATK Mission Systems Group.

The test was conducted at the Yuma Proving Grounds, Yuma, Ariz. After exiting the barrel, the tail fin assembly deployed and latched as designed. After the fins were locked in place, the round's rocket motor ignited and completed a full burn.

The thrust provided by the rocket motor allowed the round to reach its 48- Kilometer objective. In previous tests, ATK has demonstrated the effectiveness of its INS/GPS guidance solution.

The increased range of Saber's boosted, ballistic trajectory flight path reduces the time from gun-launch to impact and supports the expanded responsibilities of Brigade Combat Teams.

The full thing is here.

Heh.

Yep. And we'll need/use fewer of them, because they're so accurate. And that will reduce collateral damage. And they have a smaller explosive charge (that rocket and fins hadda take up some space, yes?) so they'll be near perfect New Agey weapons and hurt only what they hit... a little bit. And that's okay, because we're now so accurate with this GPS stuff that, as the old Bryllcreem add says, "A little dab'll do ya!"

That's what the Smart Guys® say.

It really is a matter of balance. And things which reduce the amount of collateral damage, focusing it instead on the right targets, especially in crowded environments, is a Good Thing. The WWII Strategic Bombing Campaign approach to artillery, in anything less than Total War is really counter-productive. Both in terms of the GOG®, the Global Opinion Golem, and the "Three-Block War Paradigm" where you have to take responsibility for the areas you just pounded.

Of course, sometimes, when presented with a large target array - which, of course, will never happen to us again, the Smart Guys® all say so - blanketing things with high explosive is useful. Especially if they are scurrying around a lot.

But, we're never going to fight that way again. I've been told by Smart Guys®.

We've got all that kewl GPS stuff - which means we know where We are, we know where They are, and we'll let the GPS guide the weapon to the target - which we really do need to hit physically, because, after all, One Round One Kill® is the new mantra, and we have a very small explosion (see: collateral damage) and - all the Smart Guys® say so! We'll never mass fires on a target again. The GOG® say's That's Bad. "Close enough for hand grenades and horseshoes" no longer applies. The blast radius doesn't give you any room for a CEP of any size.

Yo, Smart Guys® - Do you know how cheap and effective GPS jammers are these days?

Just askin'.

Funny thing about Smart Guys®. They almost never have to actually implement this stuff with their a$$ on the battlefield.

Just ask the SECDEF about how all the Smart Guys® he went with got it in regard to OIF, the Aftermath. They did have Part I down, certainly. There was this problem with overall context outside the immediate specification.

Sometimes, heck many times, the Smart Guys® are right. But when they're wrong? That's when people like SFC Paul Smith pick up the slack.

I study this stuff for a living. I write reports that help or hinder projects like this.

SFC Paul Smith, and those like him, are always hov'ring in the back of my mind as I potter about my work.

So pardon my bear-just-outta-hibernation attitude when I read breathless stuff like this.

Just sayin'.

That doesn't mean you should quit *sending* it Ry.

It's all bloggable.

17 Comments

The story says the round is compatible with all existing and future 155 mm cannons. It's just a projectile, not a whole new system. There will still be 155s around, and likely 'normal' rounds will still be in the arsenal to use as needs dictate. So what's the problem?
 
Simple - yes, there will still be "regular" rounds around. But far fewer. 1. Because less money is spent on procuring them - in order to pay the bills for the new rounds. 2. The biggest restriction on artillery ammunition is generally transport space - to the theater, in theater, and on the vehicles. Which makes the new rounds even more attractive in that regard. So, the new, specialized rounds take up more space at the expense of conventional rounds. Which are now not available if you need them. Which means SFC Smith gets to perform. It's all a balance - and I'm just offering the flip side of the coin to the press release. Or should I just have been a cheerleader?
 
nice round... now all i need is a Forward Observer who can talk reliably at a range of 48 kilometers to initiate the call for fire and adjust, and then report the BDA. doh!
 
And who doesn't have a jammed GPS.
 
I don't expect you to be a cheerleader for anything, I just think you overreacted a bit and were overly snarky and derisive to people who are trying to advance our capabilities. I'm all for new and improved systems to supplement what we already have. And I do realize that we still need (and will likely always need) 'conventional' systems and tactics. I'd actually feel better if we scrapped domestic spending and built a military based on mass and technology, as ready for large scale war as it is for precision work.
 
Advantages of youth and vigor over old fogey, Tim. Each and every individual program has merit. Just perhaps not enough merit. And Alliant is just doing what the government asked them to do. But I've spent 30ish years of listening to the hype, and then being the one who either had to find a way to make it actually work, etc. 30-some years of deja vu' with some stuff actually working as advertised (eventually) and I understand how the system works. But I do get tired of how it's all presented, and how much gets brushed under the carpet because it's inconvenient. I don't mind Saber, per se. But I, unlike, I'm guessing, you - have been the guy to try and figure out what the right mix is, and fight with all the entrenched interests who want to make sure their pet is included somewhere. I don't know your background, but my background on this is informed - and when you ask questions like that the answer tends to be a handwave toward something in the future. But we'll push this thing out there, regardless. Because figuring out how to defeat GPS jamming is "someone else's problem". Until SFC Smith is the guy who needs the support. This *is* my blog-job, partly. To ask the questions, snarky or not, that others don't want asked, because the answers aren't pretty. It's a way, infintesimal in it's impact, of reminding people of the elephant in the room. A small sphere of influence, to be sure. I'm sorry if you don't like the snark - but it really isn't aimed at the people who do the regular work of designing and building these things. It's aimed at the decision makers, marketeers, etc. If you work on a line building these things - you're doing great things and the tech is worth developing - but all these things work in a context. I sit in a part of that context where the job is to sort it out. And lots of it doesn't get sorted out. So I snark. It's my job. Sorry if you feel scorched by the backblast.
 
I don't feel scorched - I was an Air Force weatherman, and it's what I've been doing for the last 20 years as a civilian.
 
A weatherman? No, you wouldn't feel scorched, you have to have developed thick skin in that trade!
 
When all is said and done, the good ol' M107 will still rule.
 
Boq No way! The L55 is the one; if not, then the L7. Although I thought the L23 was sweet. Cheers
 
(pokes head out from under rock) Is it safe? I wonder if this is a product of needing to keep cannon 'relevant'? Missile advocates seem to think that the age of the cannon is long past. So, do we put precision into cannon shells to offset the calls to deep six cannon? Aren't ideological fights grand? (dives back under rock)
 
If it were purely about that, Ry, I would leading the cheers, right? Nobody gets me, sigh. This is about "fair and balanced." I'm not condemning Saber, or Excalibur, etc. I'm just talking about the weaknesses. No silver bullet ever has been a silver bullet. And if you get yourself to the point where've you've got mostly precision munitions in your kit bag - strategically, not tactically - you've actually taken away capability. The ability to precision snipe, at range, in all weather is a good one. Owhell, I surrender. I'm too old to fight this anymore. All you young guys are right. I'll just shut up. Everybody who does this stuff is a hard-working American saint, who deserves nothing but praise. I'm just a past-my-time fuddy-duddy, mired in a never-to-be-seen again past who just can't let go. I admit it.
 
Bring back the Crusader! LOL
 
Oi vey. Just asking a question about whether this was being propelled by the arguments between pure missile advocates or not or the all weapons need precision capabilities advocates or not. Sheesh. I shoulda stayed under my rock. It's not like I am pushing one thing or another. Just asking questions for my own edumafication.
 
I think about another Sergeant who's just been proposed for the MoH. Read about him on a link from The Cotillion. The narrative, presumably to be distilled into a citation, had him capturing (actually, with-the-hands wrestling-capturing) a guy in a house fight, who just would not quit yelling, nor fighting. Said Sgt. purportedly drew knife, cut the guy's throat, and squoze him to make him bleed out more quickly. Yikes! Well, yeah, pushbutton weapons are the kind I'd prefer to use, bein' kinda squeamish, but once you start killin' and getting killed, it seems to me that knives will prolly get used at some point. Not that there's anything wrong with that... Ow. Dang, it really *is* a matter of life and death. Who'd a-thunk it?
 
Umm, sorry about having written "squoze", above. I must confess to a partiality for irregular verbs. If they don't exist, I'll make 'em up!
 
IIRC, when Reagan had that cancer on his face, when asked about it - he remarked that he'd "squoze" a pimple too hard or somesuch.
 
© 2008 John Donovan
All rights reserved.