We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2007 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html Sun, 03 Aug 2008 17:10:09 Z Movable Type 4.12 en Copyright 2008 http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification February 1, 2006 Iraqi troops of the 1st Battalion, 3rd Brigade, 2nd Iraqi Army Division, pass in review during a transfer of authority ceremony Jan. 28 at Q-West Base Complex in northern Iraq."> Over at National Review's The Corner, John Derbyshire posted this: FROM ONE TO ZERO [John Derbyshire] "The only Iraqi battalion capable of fighting without U.S. support has been downgraded to a level requiring them to fight with American troops backing them up, the Pentagon said Friday. The battalion, made up of 700 to 800 Iraqi Army soldiers, has repeatedly been offered by the U.S. as an... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html Thu, 02 Mar 2006 05:58:49 -0600 "Remind me again what the Iraqis were being punished for doing?" It's in the AUF, and there's a list of 46 reasons, Owen. Not just one, WMD. How about finally being able to end the sanctions regime that in ten years killed on avg. 50K elderly and children? Seems rather humanitarian in my book. Of course, if one reads the Deulfer report(he was safely in a box sans actual wmd, but had everything in place to have bc weapons the week after), and remembers the toll it took to keep Iraq in that box it doesn't seem so bad. See, I've been raised in a school of thought that says one has to figure the costs of not going and compare it to the costs of going. The costs to not go were staggering, and a nightmare as well(or are news articles about anger at the US for its sanctions against Cuba and Iraq suddenly hard to find?) in terms of IR. einseitigkeit seems to be the basis of analysis so far. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41959 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41959 Fri, 03 Mar 2006 23:54:09 -0600 Always nice to see the comments. I learn more when I read. In this instance, I was not a fan of invading Iraw either, as I want and still want Osama's head. Not much, just the perps who killed 3500 innocent people for no other reason than hate. And yes, I agree that we are committed so we need to finish what we start. And if we can change hearts in the process, by finding more common ground than oil, then it will be worth it. And if oil goes to 100 a barrel, then the Saudis can eat their oil. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41886 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41886 Fri, 03 Mar 2006 11:27:18 -0600 Owen, Again.. you show your ignorance of the audience you are addressing here. It's been my experience that those who have combat experience tend not to want to repeat it if possible, but do not shy away the fight once it's started. Quite a few of us were NOT in agreement over invading Iraq the second time- me being one of them. And based upon previous conversations we've had here, most of us agreed that the first Gulf War ended too soon, which lead us to the current one. If we don't finish it up right this time, we'll just be back again in another 10 years. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41882 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41882 Fri, 03 Mar 2006 11:01:39 -0600 "I wasn't a fan of invading Iraq" I'm surprised and pleased to hear that John. As for finishing what you started, it could be argued that you have, since you went there ostensibly to disarm Iraq of WMD, and one thing we can all agree on is that Iraq definitely has no WMD. From another point of view, it could be argued that what the invasion really started was the disintegration of Iraq, and that is perhaps a job that's better left unfinished. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41880 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41880 Fri, 03 Mar 2006 10:54:01 -0600 I was just curious. I'm not a fan of Derb's philosophy, either. I wasn't a fan of invading Iraq, either. I'm not a fan of invading Iran, for a whole bunch of other reasons. But I do believe in finishing what you've started, even if it's something you maybe shouldn't have, hence, the way I look at Iraq. That doesn't mean you can't convince me that we can't achieve our ultimate objectives at a cost we're willing to pay and we should, at that point, pack it up and wish them the best with whatever non-resident support we can provide. But, at the same time, the whole concept of "persistance of failed ideas" permeates the whole Middle East problem. Bush tried something different. It has made a difference. And we aren't *really* going to know for a long time whether or not it did any good in the long run. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41874 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41874 Fri, 03 Mar 2006 10:38:27 -0600 Afghanistan. That's where 911 was planned. I have read Derbyshire's comments, and I think he's just silly. He hasn't remotely thought through the consequences of what he's talking about. "Smashing and running" in Iran and Saudi Arabia would send oil way over $100 a barrel, wreck the US economy, destroy NATO, and in all probability provoke a de facto military alliance between Russia, China and the EU. He sums it up: "Rubble doesn't make trouble." Well there's a hell of a lot of rubble in Afghanistan, yet, as I said, that's where 911 came from. The Iraqi example doesn't exactly argue the peace-spreading benefits of rubble creation either. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41872 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41872 Fri, 03 Mar 2006 10:30:28 -0600 Um, Owen, you need to read the link to what Derb thinks is a good approach. What *is* the right country, btw? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41867 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41867 Fri, 03 Mar 2006 10:14:12 -0600 ‘John belongs to the "Smash and Run" school of the War on Terror, where you go in, kill people, break things, and leave a note saying "Stop what you're doing or we'll come back" and then come home and pass around the medals and get back to training for the next Punitive Expedition.’ Remind me again what the Iraqis were being punished for doing? WMD? 911? Looking at you funny? Whether you stick around or smash and run, it’s still attacking the wrong country. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41862 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41862 Fri, 03 Mar 2006 09:44:21 -0600 'Scuse me. Pardon me. Make way, please. *unwrapping 12 square feet of bandaid and activating official insta-mash self-inflating medical tent* This way, ma'am. Just need you to fill out some forms, first. *handing zoomiesib forty pounds of sf88s and 93s* Can't start work until the weight of the paperwork equals the weight of the injured area, ya know... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41859 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41859 Fri, 03 Mar 2006 09:17:33 -0600 What, and risk getting a nasty papercut on my Girls which might require medical attention? NO WAY.. oh.... now.... waitaminute.... MEDIC!!!! I NEED A MEDIC!!!! http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41854 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41854 Fri, 03 Mar 2006 08:59:02 -0600 Not even paperbacks? Tsk. There's not enough room on the shelf over my monitor--fortunately, I liberated a GI special (a bunch of 1x12s and wood screws) before it met an ignominious end when the 50th Aviation Brigade faded into the mists of history. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41845 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41845 Fri, 03 Mar 2006 07:51:23 -0600 Shelf above the monitor? Not I, said the fly. I don't have a shelf above my monitor, unless you're counting the boobage that hangs over the laptop keyboard, and they're not sturdy enough to store books on. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41843 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41843 Fri, 03 Mar 2006 07:27:29 -0600 You mean, everybody doesn't just reach up to the shelf above the monitor and pull down either book? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41841 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41841 Fri, 03 Mar 2006 06:58:19 -0600 On War is a good 'un, but if the local Library has already burned it, try How to Make War, from James Dunnigan (yeah, one of the strategypage-dot-com guys). Whap the MSM with Part 1 (Ground Combat), Chapter 5 (Combat Support) and all of Part 4 (Human Factors).]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41840 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41840 Fri, 03 Mar 2006 05:52:15 -0600 1) Everyone track down a copy of 'On War'.' 2) Look up sections pertaining to 'friction' or 'entropy'. 3) Beat a reporter with book open to those sections until they get it.(Better take a dictionary along with you, just in case.) (gollum/ry retreats back under his rock). http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41837 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41837 Thu, 02 Mar 2006 23:07:49 -0600 Actually, I understand the major concerns with many other Iraq units are logistical support. It seems the MOD in Iraq completely sucks at budgets, buying, scheduling and supplying. Not to mention, the concept of a "supply unit" seems almost wholely alien to the commanders who were used to scavenging and making due based on their relationships in the old military. AND there seems to be a huge problem with bribery, theft and embezzlement up and down the line. In which case, the other units at a two, I understand there were at least 10, maybe more, were largely due to bad logistics and supplies. Can't even get batteries for flashlights. But, I understood that was supposed to be worked on this year and was part of the "draw down" plan where we had fewer combat troops and more supply/logistics people training the second tier support troops. I'm sure that's going to be extremely difficult in light of the current situation. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41832 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41832 Thu, 02 Mar 2006 17:52:50 -0600 *evil grin* I thought you'd like that, FbL. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41826 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41826 Thu, 02 Mar 2006 15:14:46 -0600 "LuvMuffin?" Oh, definitely! *grin* http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41821 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41821 Thu, 02 Mar 2006 14:31:55 -0600 I'm always lively. I *am* a kitty, you know. *pops cinnamon Altoid in mouth to mask jalepeno breath* http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41819 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41819 Thu, 02 Mar 2006 13:52:40 -0600 ...purposely put back in the middle... Hmmm. Could *somebody* have hit the Tex-Mex Takeout for lunch, by any chance? Last time you were this lively, you were commando and you'd dropped the Jalepeño Special in your lap...]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41817 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41817 Thu, 02 Mar 2006 13:44:22 -0600 Have at it, Honey Buh... Honey Buh... Hang on, I think I'm having a Brokeback Moment... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41814 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41814 Thu, 02 Mar 2006 13:31:05 -0600 Actually, I was thinking about changing John's name from SweetPea to LuvMuffin. LuvMuffin SugarButtons (purposely put back in the middle for the "me sammich". *grin*) HoneyBuns WOOT! WOOT! http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41813 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41813 Thu, 02 Mar 2006 13:29:34 -0600 So how bout that Iraqi Army eh? This certainly seems to be the perfect team to critique em doncha think? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41812 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41812 Thu, 02 Mar 2006 13:03:24 -0600 Eeeew! My eyes! My eyes! http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41811 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41811 Thu, 02 Mar 2006 12:43:50 -0600 me sandwich, hmmmmm? ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41808 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41808 Thu, 02 Mar 2006 11:50:54 -0600 SweetPea SugarButtons HoneyBuns Are typical of the names I use on wimmins when I can't remember their names. Like the old song (hit it mystro) Letttt me callllll you Sweetheart, I forgottt yourrrrr naaaaameeeeeeeee Thank you thank you very much .... Thank you. ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41807 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41807 Thu, 02 Mar 2006 11:21:55 -0600 *grin* I finally got the SugarButtons banner to pop up. So cute... (yeah. he's gonna kill me for that someday) http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41806 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41806 Thu, 02 Mar 2006 11:13:14 -0600 I'm more and more distressed that SugarButtons is getting so much attention from the boys. It seems to me you guys need your own Brigade name. Let's see.... Jim, you can be HoneyBuns. John... how about SweetPea? SweetPea SugarButtons HoneyBuns works for me..... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41805 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41805 Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:56:45 -0600 So it's more fun to highjack and interrupt here... however to turn the flow back to the original topic.... And now back to our regularly scheduled broadcast already in progress Chief Bill's excellent adventures in evaluating the Army of the Sand. Take it away Sugar Buttons http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41804 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41804 Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:45:37 -0600 And the echo is Horkin' Interminable... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41802 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41802 Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:23:46 -0600 H&I means Hijacking and Interruption. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41801 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41801 Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:22:10 -0600 And this thread has been completely hijacked, too. Tell me again why I put up the H&I fires? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41799 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41799 Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:19:19 -0600 And this thread has been completely hijacked, too. Tell me again why I put up the H&I fires? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41798 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41798 Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:19:18 -0600 *We* don't. It's the Denizennes who do... Them, and the guy from NIF. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41797 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41797 Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:16:50 -0600 'Bout time someone noticed. It's been that way for days... jb: I am more and more concerned that Dusty and John refer to the Chief as Sugar Buttons. I'm more concerned that nobody appears to have noticed, and if they did, didn't turn in a Spot Report. Looks like it's time for some remedial Observation and Reporting training. *lugging overhead slide projector and 'ritamatic towards the jungle room*]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41796 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41796 Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:15:42 -0600 I am more and more concerned that Dusty and John refer to the Chief as Sugar Buttons. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41795 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41795 Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:06:27 -0600 'Bout time someone noticed. It's been that way for days... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41794 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41794 Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:58:42 -0600 OH by the way .... Chief Sugarbuttons your name is up in lights again. *Good Ship Lollipop* plays in the background. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41793 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41793 Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:54:35 -0600 Dang. Don't let John near Bill Buckley's column on the matter from over the weekend everybody. And should we go after Derb for not liking NASA too? Can we add Derb to the list, along with beets, as things we're thinking about having a Punitive Expedition against? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41792 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41792 Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:48:45 -0600 I seem to recall that there were European units that could not meet this requirement. Heh. Wait 'til the Army finishes its "Modularity Transformation" and I'll give odds that there will be US units that can't meet the requirement.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41791 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41791 Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:47:28 -0600 I had also thought that this top level of readiness meand *complete* operational independence -- and I seem to recall that there were European units that could not meet this requirement. Anybody got the breakdown on that? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41790 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41790 Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:17:11 -0600 Now having said that, dang them boys is pretty eh? White gloves and as many badges as a boy scout troop. Kinda reminds ya of the US Army eh? I bet them red shashes were awarded for the three legged race at this year's family day. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41789 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41789 Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:11:48 -0600 I can't disagree with the 'nuke em to glass' and move on school of thought. That said, this is a normal flow of things IF you honestly and objectively evaluate any unit. The object of testing a unit (person, animal) is to measure the strengths, and detail the weaknesses. You then work (manage, train, educate, whatever) to polish the strengths and improve the weaknesses. I take this evaluation and subsequent downgrading of this unit to be an honest and correct assessment. Then you fix the problems. The alternative is to 'fudge' the criteria and declair the unit to be grade 'whatever' to fill your propaganda goals ... then suffer the consequences. I applaud the honesty and objectivity of the evaluators. I have confidence in the managers ability to correct deficits and actually build a grade one unit in reality, as opposed to 'on paper only' US units combat status typically do that roller coaster thing. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41788 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41788 Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:08:57 -0600 Studies in organizational dynamics show that even the highest performing organizations take a dip in performance when leadership changes. What is more significant, and indicative of an organization's (or unit's)ilk, is how long it takes for that organization to rebound. There are so many variables of change in a combat environment that it will be hard to isolate the impact of a new commander; however, I suspect that the battalion will return to its combat readiness sooner rather than later. ML http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41787 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/from_one_to_zero.html#comment-41787 Thu, 02 Mar 2006 08:24:01 -0600