We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2010 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html Sat, 24 Mar 2012 15:54:49 Z Movable Type 4.12 en Copyright 2012 http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification Especially since it makes Infantry duck and tankers go into at least "open protective". And that's the ones on your side. Some Redleg Marines having a moment of gunner zen on Bougainville, December 1943. I will leave it open for the snarks sure to emanate from the CANZSTAAC* Denizens.... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html Wed, 22 Mar 2006 06:24:40 -0600 Just in case there are any functional brains left... since the change in soutache came with a promotion, you just needed to budget your promo party better... I've kept my old Mess Dress. I'll be damned if I'm giving up my cannon for the lazy bastages. I can still fit the jacket. I shudder to think about the trousers, what with that high waist and all. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42986 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42986 Fri, 24 Mar 2006 01:40:02 -0600 Yeah, and the trefoils comprising the soutache cost an arm and a leg, too. But it used to be a chuckle watching the gavotte that ensued as the Ladies peered at various wrists trying to figure out their pecking order while the wrists' owners were utilizing them in conjunction with 8-ounce elbow-curls. *sound of additional brains shutting down* http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42973 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42973 Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:32:42 -0600 Bill - Cavalry were called Yellowlegs when in disfavor... Jim - you are partially correct - on the Army Dress Blue uniform, there *is* a branch color stripe in the center of the gold *sleeve* braid. And on the Mess Dress, it's the facing color of the lapels. On *my* Mess Dress (the old, and far superior style with soutache on the sleeve denoting rank, you also had branch insignia nested inside the trefoils of the soutache. (how many people's brains just shut down over that sentence, I wonder). But people whined about they couldn't tell what people's rank was, so we ditched the branch insignia and put rank insignia there instead. Which means that I could (horror!) be taken for an Duckhunter or an Earthpig, as we shate the same basic branch color. Sigh. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42968 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42968 Thu, 23 Mar 2006 15:37:35 -0600 something to hang on the wall and I called that particular color "turquoise". Silly me...]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42954 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42954 Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:41:33 -0600 My bad, I seem to have remembered a thin red stripe down the center of the yellow stripe, during our 'orientation to Army uniforms' while at Fort Swill, some time back. I also seem to remember a red neck scarf thingie they wore. Infantry wore blue, Engineers orange and so forth. There is the fog of war, and the fog of memories of long past events. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42953 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42953 Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:13:31 -0600 Yellowlegs" yet. The red stripe originated in the Civil War, probably as an aid to help nearsighted Confederate scouts differentiate between a Union artillery outfit and a cavalry one, since both were found in close proximity to horses...]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42950 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42950 Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:46:18 -0600 As we all know the tag "Red Leg" has to do with a center stripe on the Army Dress Blues. There are also blue legs, orange etc (not pink or so I hear) Marines do not feel compelled to put colored markers on their artillerymen, so they can develop branch pride. To my knowledge the only people who wear 'red tabs' in the Corps are Shore Party people so that they can be readily identified on the beach as they direct traffic. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42935 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42935 Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:00:02 -0600 The helmets are probably on as much for psychological value as physical protection. There are times and places you just don't feel right without one. I used to work with a WWII vet who made the trip from Sicily up the boot to the Mannerheim Line with a pack howitzer battery. He was the muleskinner--nobody else in the outfit could get the beasties to hold still when it came time to CSMO. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42929 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42929 Thu, 23 Mar 2006 08:33:03 -0600 December 1943? Bouganville? High Summer down under, and in a particularly nasty,hot, humid, muddy jungle. I think those helmets are on because they, unlike shirts, might deflect an infiltrator's bullet or a mortar fragment. Or possibly because helmets are part of sarge's "by the numbers" for live fire. No flak jackets for ground troops until Korea, if I remember correctly. The 75 pack howitzer was often deployed where an FO could adjust fires by shout. Or pointing a finger. Or they just aimed at the moonlight reflecting off of swords and bayonets. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42915 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42915 Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:56:07 -0600 Well, the upstairs neighbor showed, finally. "Okay, lads, the Major said if we keep looking this good in practice, tomorrow he's gonna give us a *live* round..." Since Murray hasn't checked in yet, I figured I'd comment for him. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42913 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42913 Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:31:38 -0600 "I think it went that-a-way ..." "Aim, before firing? Wow, I'd never thought of that!" "Heh, if you look through here, you can see they're a lot bigger." "When Joe turn that crank there, when we fire the gun, we get what we call a zone of dispersion. Like all over there." "It's easy! As soon as they stop, like over there where we're aiming, BAMM, they're dead!" "Well, we can shoot "All over the place". Cheers JMH http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42911 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42911 Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:59:21 -0600 Heh. And the CANZSTAACs haven't made an appearance... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42897 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42897 Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:03:26 -0600 eyes gleaming brightly That's the reflection off yer glasses...]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42882 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42882 Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:58:56 -0600 There are no Marine "Red Legs". That will come as a great shock to the Marine Det at Fort Sill.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42881 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42881 Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:57:21 -0600 Heh. Go to bed... and wake up to find a mess! MAJMike - ya might find the HEAT round for that thing somewhat disconcerting... And, like Bill said, comparing your recent mounts to older stuff is... so declasse. And I seemed to recall that all those gallant COTLB tankers who cavalierly disregarded and dismissed artillery at the NTC were a buncha cautious whiners during Desert Storm, alla time asking if we'd killed the Iraqi artillery yet, had we, huh? Huh? Huh? Had we yet? Had we? Apropos of nothing, of course. lanyard gripped loosely gun ready eyes gleaming brightly http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42880 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42880 Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:54:29 -0600 Awwwww, thanks--but you *know* how acrophobic I am... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42853 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42853 Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:04:28 -0600 Come on up and inspect it yourself, Chief. I'll give you the personalized tour.... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42851 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42851 Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:52:56 -0600 Reminds me--I've been meaning to ask you how the padding is holding up in the chandelier... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42850 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42850 Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:33:59 -0600 Bill, I've never turned *anything* in a helmet- inverted, or not. Of course, I've turned *other* things while inverted.....but that's another story. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42848 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42848 Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:20:38 -0600 I *knew* that pic would get her nose out of the N2O beaker... There's no technical term for it, but it's commonly known as going into "we're so far from the real shooting that we can work on our tans" mode. They're still wearing helmets because there's just *no* place in a gun pit to put the darn things where they won't be constantly underfoot. Ever turn your ankle on an inverted helmet? I know a guy who did and said it was really, really painful. But he was in a VIP-flight outfit and considered eating cold C-rats really, really painful... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42843 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42843 Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:20:03 -0600 Concur yr analysis, Were-Kitten. Hooah! Is the technical term for this BUU -- Battle Undress Uniform? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42842 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42842 Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:05:28 -0600 Oh goody. Cannon haiku. Lessee: He gives direction Gun ready Blasts others to h*** http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42833 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42833 Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:04:07 -0600 God loves leeches he made so many of them. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42830 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42830 Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:28:55 -0600 No Marine Red Legs? Ever see a Tiger Team after they went for a stroll in the paddies? Lotta red legs--especially after they started Leech Removal Ops... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42828 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42828 Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:21:14 -0600 There are no Marine "Red Legs". http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42827 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42827 Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:15:39 -0600 The pack howitzer's light enough to drag around the dance floor but big enough to give the target a nosebleed. And I *do* b'lieve that the M4 Sherman (aka, "The Ronson") used the 75mm popgun, too... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42826 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42826 Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:14:22 -0600 btw, John... "Especially since it makes Infantry duck" What I want to know is... What makes Infantrymen goose? I'm MUCH more interested in being goosed by an Infantryman than being ducked by one. *shakes tail feathers at boys* http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42825 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42825 Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:09:45 -0600 Gotta luv half-nekkid boys firing off big guns first thing in the morning! WOOT! http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42823 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42823 Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:07:00 -0600 what a cute little pop gun... looks just like something that could get mildly annoying (might go to chin strap defilade, but the hatches are staying open). http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42817 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42817 Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:17:43 -0600 I see our Sugarbuttons is in fine form today... :D http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42816 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42816 Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:16:46 -0600 Q. How can you can tell that's a Marine howitzer? A. By the bayonet stud... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42815 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42815 Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:15:31 -0600 The sound of one Fred posting Echoes in the Great Hall. Small 'trons die Unmourned. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42814 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42814 Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:13:19 -0600 I thought Gunner zen came from when they have elevation set zero/negative, shot is loaded, and all the gun crew have decided that twiddly little infantry small arms would be welcome addition to their usual repertoire. In fact, isn't satori achieved when the gunner's are happy to see the infantry sharing positions with them? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42811 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42811 Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:56:15 -0600 I thought Gunner zen came from when they have elevation set zero/negative, shot is loaded, and all the gun crew have decided that twiddly little infantry small arms would be welcome addition to their usual repertoire. In fact, isn't satori achieved when the gunner's are happy to see the infantry sharing positions with them? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42810 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2006/03/cannoneer_zen.html#comment-42810 Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:56:10 -0600