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Any soldier, any era...

By The Armorer on January 24, 2006 | | Comments (67) | TrackBacks (1)

...would recognize these guys.

On 11 January 2006 soldiers from Bravo Company, 2nd Bn, 502nd INF continued Operation Falcon Sweep in the Village of Shakaria, Iraq. One of the objectives of the operation was to identify and capture terrorist in the village and surrounding area. Soldiers searched the fields looking for a terrorist. (Released) US Army photo by SSG Kevin L. Moses Sr.

Hi-res here.

These guys would...

Marines in the Pacific, WWII

...so would these.

British soldiers in Flanders, WWI

As would these, and many others, throughout history. This is Infantry. This is what makes the difference.

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Vince Lombardi warfare from CDR Salamander on January 24, 2006 1:04 PM

John over at Argghhh!!!! has a nice pictorial review of what some want to wish away, but will always be true. To win wars you must have your men on the ground, keeping control from the end of a gun. Fundamentals people, fundamentals. Read More

67 Comments

By jim b on January 24, 2006 8:47 AM
Notice the ever increasing load of 'stuff' they carry.
 
By jim b on January 24, 2006 8:57 AM
As we all recall the 'scandal plagued New York Times' (I like that phrase btw) did their thing on that poopyhead "W" and his less than total coverage body armor thing. I seem to remember a video of one former soldier questioning Murtha. He was no longer able to soldier because of a herniated disc. So where is the study on how many soldiers are disabled due to carrying too much stuff too long. I remember one particular exercise in Norway. My rifle company carried too much stuff, too long. Most had numb arms, hands and shoulders for a month.
 
By John of Argghhh! on January 24, 2006 9:19 AM
While the Soldier's Load is a topic of never-ending discussion in the circles I move in, I would note that comparing cherry-picked photos (I was looking for mud and misery) of Marines headed to chow and a working detail in Flanders is perhaps not quite cricket... but since you bring up the Soldier's Load, I think I'll update the post above...
 
By John of Argghhh! on January 24, 2006 9:42 AM
I changed my mind. I'll put up a post tomorrow on the subject. No reason to expend all ammo today when there's already enough going downrange!
 
By Jon The Mechanic on January 24, 2006 9:54 AM
When I was a grunt with the 10th Mtn (1990-1994), we went out to NTC. At that time I was a strapping young symbol of manhood and virilty who weighed in at just over 190 lbs. They weighed my LBE, eqpt, weapon, and Combat Lifetaker bag, and all of that equiptment weighed in at just under 125 lbs. And when I went to Somalia in Oct, I did the same thing. Basic combat load, eqpt, weapon, 4 quarts of water, and 2 meals in my assault pack weighed in at about the same amount.
 
By jim b on January 24, 2006 9:59 AM
Now ya see one needs to be careful and diligent when reading these things I read this from above: "I was a strapping young symbol of manhood and virilty" Don't say that kinda stuff in here it gets the wimmins allllll hormonal. Where were these chicks when I was in high school?
 
By J.M. Heinrichs on January 24, 2006 10:32 AM
This is Infantry. This is all the same. It's the Cavalry which makes the difference; especially since the Artillery missed a couple turns in the Rear Area. Cheers JMH
 
By FbL on January 24, 2006 10:36 AM
Where were these chicks when I was in high school? Do you really need to ask, Jim? But I'll give you hint: among the Castle Denizennes, I'm the youngest (in my early thirties). Trust me, that thing about women hitting their stride beginning in their 30s is no myth! *grin*
 
By cw4(ret)billt on January 24, 2006 10:48 AM
Lessee-- Put on an SPH-4 flight helmet, about four pounds; assorted survival gear plus canteen, maybe twenty pounds; chicken plate, thirty pounds; and sawed-off M-2 carbine and banana clips, about seven pounds. Now strap on a Huey, weighing in at five tons... Hmmpf. Pikers.
 
By J.M. Heinrichs on January 24, 2006 10:55 AM
Checked with my buddy in Flight Safety: Bill, the Huey was carrying you, not vice versa. You were along for the ride. Cheers JMH
 
By jim b on January 24, 2006 10:56 AM
Jeez Bill you did all your best work sittin down.
 
By cw4(ret)billt on January 24, 2006 11:03 AM
If the Huey was carrying me, how is it that *I* had to get it off the ground? Huh? Huh?
 
By jim b on January 24, 2006 11:06 AM
Bill you look really spiffy in that Napolian hat with the N taken off and the Huey sewed on. It's a well known fact that the Huey was autopiloted by LBJ from the WhiteHouse. They just let you sit in it. You provided the smiley face from behind the plastic, to give grunts the warm fuzzy feeling that there was a human inside. I think all this stuff is declassified now. If not ... sorry.
 
By V29 on January 24, 2006 11:11 AM
Ahhhhhhhh, the blessings of Army Aviation. Light load only toted from bunk to flight line, an airconditioned office, beautiful views, home for cocktails and dinner every night, and best of all.... no mud. I miss the good old days!
 
By cw4(ret)billt on January 24, 2006 11:11 AM
Jim - Remember the old Infantry Maxim: Never run when you can walk and never walk when you can ride. Riding entails sitting down. It's a tough job, but somebody has to keep the pilot's seat from sliding around...
 
By cw4(ret)billt on January 24, 2006 11:16 AM
V29 - No mud, huh? *Rainy* season. Nam Can. Tranny oil temp up, tranny pressure down. No mud, my a$$...
 
By Were-Kitten on January 24, 2006 11:33 AM
Jim- When *I* read Jon's line, it came out like this: "At that time I was a strapping young symbol of manhood and virGINITY" ROFLMAO!!!!!!! I seriously had to go back and read that again, and then, combine with your statement? I was laughing out loud at my desk. HAHAHHA!!!!!!!!! *sigh* i love Marines. and Soldiers. and Airmen. and Sailors. and Coasties. and... well, I you get the picture.......
 
By AFSister on January 24, 2006 11:37 AM
John- I'm looking forward to reading that post tomorrow. It's been a concern of mine for a while. Like Jon said, I know a lot of our fully loaded guys go into battle with 100 pounds of gear strapped on. I myself tried on one of the newer vests over the summer, and they are heavy as SHIT. My back wouldn't be able to take it.
 
By jim b on January 24, 2006 11:43 AM
Why did I know you would focus in on that line like a laser? You go gurl. Run Jon run.
 
By cw4(ret)billt on January 24, 2006 11:47 AM
AFSis - There's always a trade-off--if you want ballistic protection from military rounds, you (currently) need a lot of kevlar plus the inserts. That's not to say some genius won't figure a way to make armor out of, say, spider silk, but it's a ways off yet...
 
By AFSister on January 24, 2006 11:58 AM
I know, Bill... but it sure would be nice if "light" infantry actually meant something. Did you see Bogg's love note to Hillary? I got a kick outta that.... hehe! (oh... I concur with Jim. Run Jon. Run. Run like the wind...unless you're properly prepared for a run-in with the Kitten. *evil grin*)
 
By jim b on January 24, 2006 11:59 AM
and bill never say anyting like this in here, you know how them wimmins is. "If the Huey was carrying me, how is it that *I* had to get it off?"
 
By cw4(ret)billt on January 24, 2006 12:02 PM
Jim - I was returning the favor. Heh.
 
By Bad Cat Robot on January 24, 2006 12:03 PM
force fields! Weigh nothing! (except the power supply) Oh, and if you look way back in the mists of history you find references to "Marius' Mules". Mud and heavy packs have been a problem for literally millennia.
 
By John of Argghhh! on January 24, 2006 12:06 PM
BCR - MORE BATTERIES! Auuugggggghhhhhhhhhh......!!!!
 
By jim b on January 24, 2006 12:13 PM
Alrighty then guys man the dories .... we sail in quest of Whale Puke ... AAAaaaargh "Whale 'vomit' sparks cash bonanza An Australian couple who picked up an odd-looking fatty lump from a quiet beach are in line for a cash windfall. Leon Wright and his wife took home a 14.75kg lump of ambergris, found in the innards of sperm whales and used in perfumes after it has been vomited up. Sought after because of its rarity, ambergris can float on the ocean for years before washing ashore. Worth up to $20 a gram, Mr Wright's find on a South Australian beach could net his family US$295,000 (£165,300)." Perfume? Yea Right!!
 
By cw4(ret)billt on January 24, 2006 12:15 PM
Now watch--some tree-hugger is gonna demand we come up with a solar-powered force field...
 
By Jon The Mechanic on January 24, 2006 12:24 PM
Jim, in the tradition of the service, I will sacrifice myself to allow my brothers to escape. Run fast, because I'm not sure how long I can hold her. *HUGE grin*
 
By cw4(ret)billt on January 24, 2006 12:29 PM
Oh, *this* will be interesting...
 
By jim b on January 24, 2006 12:46 PM
jim b walks briskly downtown to the coffeeshop for a brew. (I almost typed likker store). This is gonna be a really dangerous place for a simple former Mud Marine like me isn't it?
 
By CDR Salamander on January 24, 2006 12:51 PM
Picture is worth 1,000 words. I think people are starting to admit what many were yelling for the last 25yrs plus.....really 15yrs.....heck, back 60yrs if you want...all the airpower and naval power in the world will not do you any good until you have your young men on the ground holding territory from the end of a gun. Simple, but so easy to want to wish away. I think I might link....
 
By Were-Kitten on January 24, 2006 12:58 PM
I'm not sure how long I can hold her. And, that... dear Jon, is the question men have been asking since the beginning of time. Many have tried, but only a few have succeeded... and that number is rapidly shrinking. But I can guarantee you this: those who *have* succeeded have been very richly rewarded for their efforts. *wink*
 
By jim b on January 24, 2006 1:05 PM
How bout them Steelers eh?
 
By Jon The Mechanic on January 24, 2006 1:06 PM
Bill, you mean interesting as in a train wreck type interesting??
 
By John of Argghhh! on January 24, 2006 1:11 PM
These "steelers" you keep mentioning. What up with that? Taxing authority or something?
 
By FbL on January 24, 2006 1:12 PM
How bout them Steelers eh? Quite a team! I'm particularly impressed with their receivers... All those muscular thighs and arms and butts, and all wrapped in white spandex... It's almost as good as ballet! *swoon*
 
By John of Argghhh! on January 24, 2006 1:13 PM
Jon - more like Mud Wrestling - fun to watch for the spectators, not a horrible disaster for the participants.
 
By jim b on January 24, 2006 1:14 PM
Wellhell never mind the Steelers, I thought that would be a safe topic. And then there was FbL. jim b walks to the bar for a double scotch
 
By John of Argghhh! on January 24, 2006 1:22 PM
*Nothing* is safe with this bunch.
 
By FbL on January 24, 2006 1:22 PM
And the Education of Jim B continues... *wicked grin*
 
By Were-Kitten on January 24, 2006 1:25 PM
*sigh* football players football shoulders football pants yep. I wouldn't mind being on the "receiving" end either, FbL!
 
By jim b on January 24, 2006 1:30 PM
sigh well at least they didn't pick up on the whale puke or bill gettin a Huey off.
 
By FbL on January 24, 2006 1:34 PM
Oh Jim, you underestimate us. We're saving that for later. :D
 
By Were-Kitten on January 24, 2006 1:55 PM
I have to admit, you caught the "getting off" remark by Bill much sooner than I did. Very impressive! Perhaps you brought your A-Game today? Or is that your XXX-Game....? *takes swing around pole before resuming position in chandelier*
 
By klkk on January 24, 2006 1:58 PM
Interesting ain't the word for it, Bill. Jon, you're getting in over your head. Ever see a kitten play with a mouse before the meal starts? You ain't got a chance.....
 
By jim b on January 24, 2006 2:00 PM
run Bill run I think she is going for your collective.... or something
 
By Were-Kitten on January 24, 2006 2:20 PM
lick lick lick One must clean one's self prior to playing with one's food...after all, playing with your food can make you, um... dirty... *flicks tail*
 
By Jon The Mechanic on January 24, 2006 2:31 PM
Quote John The Boss "Jon - more like Mud Wrestling - fun to watch for the spectators, not a horrible disaster for the participants." As long as I don't end up like Blue in the movie Old School, I'm up for Mud wrestling.
 
By Were-Kitten on January 24, 2006 2:45 PM
Jon and John- You both left out the best part of mud rasslin': the clean up that follows the slippin' and slidin'; grabbin' and holdin', take-downs and reversals. It's the clean up that becomes interesting. Especially with Kittens around.....
 
By Jon The Mechanic on January 24, 2006 3:08 PM
No I didn't WK. I'm just too much of a gentleman to mention that bit.
 
By Were-Kitten on January 24, 2006 3:19 PM
*grin* Hear that ladies? We've got ourselves a gen-yew-wine gentleman around here! (who just happens to like rasslin' in the mud and getting his hands all dirty)
 
By cw4(ret)billt on January 24, 2006 3:21 PM
Jon - The 'rasslin' sometimes involves whipped cream, chocolate syrup and assorted colors of maraschino cherries. Slippery and sticky at the same time. You might want to book a shower stall for later, 'cuz the tub in the Jungle Room is down for maintenance--excessive hairballs in the drain...
 
By John of Argghhh! on January 24, 2006 3:22 PM
I pity the poor Googler trying to gather term-paper info who happens by on this post...
 
By Were-Kitten on January 24, 2006 3:28 PM
*sigh* the choklit gun hasn't been out NEAR enough lately...
 
By Barney Google on January 24, 2006 3:29 PM
Hi! Is this the place that's got information on solar-powered force fields? *peering around myopically* Or maybe it's the waiting room of the ASPCA...?
 
By jim b on January 24, 2006 3:40 PM
run Barney Run
 
By Jon The Mechanic on January 24, 2006 3:48 PM
Quote WK "*sigh* the choklit gun hasn't been out NEAR enough lately..." Spellcheck has revealed an error in the above statement. Below is the corrected version. *sigh* the ChocoLICK gun hasn't been out NEAR enough lately...
 
By Blake Kirk on January 24, 2006 3:48 PM
CDR Salamander wrote "...all the airpower and naval power in the world will not do you any good until you have your young men on the ground holding territory from the end of a gun. Simple, but so easy to want to wish away. I think I might link...." T. R. Fehrenbach said it best in 1963 in This Kind Of War: "..you may fly over a land forever; you may bomb it, atomize it, pulverize it, and wipe it clean of life -- but if you desire to defend it, protect it, and keep it for civilization, you must do this on the ground, the way the Roman legions did, by putting your young men into the mud." I think that Chapter 25 of This Kind of War, the chapter entitled "Proud Legions," (from which the above quote was taken,) needs to be required reading at the lowest levels of both the officer and NCO school systems, and it needs to be read by the Army's civilian leadership and by our elected officials as well. Not that that's likely to happen anytime soon.
 
By John of Argghhh! on January 24, 2006 3:51 PM
Wrench-Monkey - your glossary is wrong, trust me.
 
By John of Argghhh! on January 24, 2006 3:55 PM
Blake - I haven't checked lately, but it's on several of the Army school's reading lists... It's not on the CSA's list, but you'll probably find some titles there you approve of. The Army financed a huge reprinting of Fehrenbach back in the 90's, too. We *issued* the book to Advanced Course students.
 
By Blake Kirk on January 24, 2006 4:27 PM
Yeah, John, I know. But I don't really see the lessons seeping in. The so-called "front-line" units (like 3rd BCT of the 101st, for whom I work,)aren't that bad, but d@#^it, we're fighting a war that is largely without front lines. EVERYBODY in a uniform needs to understand this stuff at the gut level. And it's the junior NCO's and the 2nd Lieutenants of ALL branches who have to understand that they MUST NOT put up with a "Yeah, but..." attitude. And while we're at it, let's have the text of "Proud Legions" tattooed on the insides of the eyelids of the people who set policies for the training base.
 
By Were-Kitten on January 24, 2006 8:39 PM
I dunno John, I kinda like Jon's glossary... WOOT! WOOT!
 
By Mike Z on January 24, 2006 8:53 PM
Regarding the photos... there's a WWII photo of a bunch of GIs in Italy pushing a jeep out of the mud. I thought of this photo while helping to push a quarter-ton out of the mud during a National Guard drill in '91 or so. Some things never change.
 
By John of Argghhh! on January 24, 2006 8:54 PM
Here I am, #82 the size of a Planet, one of the biggest gunrooms in bloggerdom, a retired Myrmidon of an Army feared the world over... The Imperial Armorer, Keeper of the Imperial Arsenal of Doom, and around here, I'm Rodney Dangerfield. Pay no attention to the grumpy curmudgeon behind the curtain. Feh.
 
By Were-Kitten on January 24, 2006 9:06 PM
*pats John on top o' his widdle head* I *promise*... really! I *promise* I'll still respect you in the morning.
 
By cw4(ret)billt on January 24, 2006 9:58 PM
I *promise*... really! I *promise* I'll still respect you in the morning. Oh, right. Like, you respect him in the first place...
 
By John of Argghhh! on January 25, 2006 5:45 AM
Ow! Y'all are being mean. I'm gonna take my blog and go home! *pout*
 
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