We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2010 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/12/through_a_glass_darkly.html Sat, 24 Mar 2012 15:57:44 Z Movable Type 4.12 en Copyright 2012 http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification Two highback Humvees filled with Marines from the Maritime Special Purpose Force (MSPF) of the 22nd Marine Expeditionary Unit (Special Operations Capable), practice firing their M240G medium machine guns while on the move during during live fire training on the Udari Range outside Camp Beuhring, Kuwait, Dec. 11, 2005. The 22nd MEU (SOC) is currently in Iraq conducting combat operations in the Al Anbar province. Photo by: Sgt. Robert A. Sturkie Seeing that twigged a few memories. I couldn't find the exact pics I wanted, but I did find these. The more things change, the more they stay the... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/12/through_a_glass_darkly.html http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/12/through_a_glass_darkly.html Fri, 30 Dec 2005 07:47:26 -0600 About time that the Marines get on the same page as the army. When I was a light infantry grunt and out at NTC, we were doing this every time that we had a ride. Otherwise we were using the LPCs to get from A to B. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/12/through_a_glass_darkly.html#comment-37269 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/12/through_a_glass_darkly.html#comment-37269 Sat, 31 Dec 2005 11:52:34 -0600 The Special OPerations Capable did stuff like raid packages, NEO operations, and tactical operations that took a bit more coordination that usually required of a Marine Battalion... We let the really high speed low drag types do the stuff behind enemy lines... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/12/through_a_glass_darkly.html#comment-37256 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/12/through_a_glass_darkly.html#comment-37256 Fri, 30 Dec 2005 22:39:31 -0600 Hey BillT, Hello! It's not a matter of being out of the loop, but rather that maybe that I misunderstood some of the things I heard folks talking about before I moved to Texas. I don't think I did, but then I wasn't involved directly in the data collection and reporting. Maybe what I heard pertained to the tail-end assessment of a long trial period? Hard to say... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/12/through_a_glass_darkly.html#comment-37255 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/12/through_a_glass_darkly.html#comment-37255 Fri, 30 Dec 2005 22:24:26 -0600 But you're right about the Marine brass wanting nothing to do with SOF until they saw the checks being written to the Green Machine to increase Army capabilities in that arena. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/12/through_a_glass_darkly.html#comment-37249 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/12/through_a_glass_darkly.html#comment-37249 Fri, 30 Dec 2005 21:04:28 -0600 Sanger - You've been out of the loop on the MEU(SOC) for a bit--they've been around for at least five years. See what happens when you move to Texas? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/12/through_a_glass_darkly.html#comment-37248 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/12/through_a_glass_darkly.html#comment-37248 Fri, 30 Dec 2005 21:04:16 -0600 And the MOST interesting thing about that picture of the Marines is the unit designation: 22nd Marine Expeditionary Unit (Special Operations Capable), which is a _real_ first for the Marines. The USMC hates, hates, hates the notion of special forces, and has since the days of the Marine Radiers like Carlson's, which they _never_ discuss with pride. The Marines have resisted creating SO units that would fall under SOCOM for a loooooong time, and it was only a couple of years ago that they even began to consider playing in the SO arena. Of course $$$$ motivates people in odd ways, and there is a _LOT_ of CT money being spread around, so the Marines began talking about creating a SO capable unit--folks who could operate and interoperate with the other SOF as needed. That is a picture of history in the making, and I am surprised the USMC even allowed it to be published. Every Marine is just like every other Marine, and there are NO elites in the Marines. At least that's the story I listened to for several years. V/R http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/12/through_a_glass_darkly.html#comment-37234 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/12/through_a_glass_darkly.html#comment-37234 Fri, 30 Dec 2005 17:57:25 -0600 "Arms of Destruction - Ranking the World's Best Land Weapons of WWII" , and toward the end, they look at the half-tracks. Apparently the M16 was very efficient at discouraging infantry, although it was originally designed as an AA mount. Maybe it is time to go back again to proven concepts. P.S. John, how much is left in your Christmas Fund? ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/12/through_a_glass_darkly.html#comment-37231 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/12/through_a_glass_darkly.html#comment-37231 Fri, 30 Dec 2005 16:40:02 -0600 truck that came back was "Eve of Destruction", and she is displayed at the Army Transportation Museum at Fort Eustis, Virginia. Other guntrucks of the Viet Nam era were M37s and M37B1s, like "Otto II", with various configurations of homemade armor.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/12/through_a_glass_darkly.html#comment-37192 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/12/through_a_glass_darkly.html#comment-37192 Fri, 30 Dec 2005 11:34:10 -0600 Jeff - It's still the practice portion. And only the first two vehicles are pictured. And all the targets may be on the right. And the range cadre directing and observing may be on the *left*. Now that's out of the way, you're absolutely--heh--right... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/12/through_a_glass_darkly.html#comment-37190 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/12/through_a_glass_darkly.html#comment-37190 Fri, 30 Dec 2005 10:48:54 -0600 Indeed. I do wonder about the Marine gun trucks above though - do they expect the enemy to be polite enough to only attack from the right side? Train as you fight guys, train as you fight. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/12/through_a_glass_darkly.html#comment-37189 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/12/through_a_glass_darkly.html#comment-37189 Fri, 30 Dec 2005 10:38:37 -0600 Heh. There are some (not who read here) who won't take the Calley comment in the spirit in which it is offered. Sometimes, you have to have crossed the meadow where the Iron Crosses grow to understand that kind of humor... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/12/through_a_glass_darkly.html#comment-37185 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/12/through_a_glass_darkly.html#comment-37185 Fri, 30 Dec 2005 10:15:53 -0600 And the week prior, they'd tried it with fifty troopies and a Ford tractor towing a reckless rifle. I was working with one of the Outlaws. Same result, but no survivors. They bulked up for the second try, which is why Two-Niner had such a target-rich environment. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/12/through_a_glass_darkly.html#comment-37183 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/12/through_a_glass_darkly.html#comment-37183 Fri, 30 Dec 2005 10:12:35 -0600 Reminds me of our efforts to mount a .50 cal on a Huey. We succeeded, but boy oh boy did that gun shake the Sh&t outta that damn aircraft. Most effective though at taking out VC water buffalo. Had occasion once to have that fifty fired in anger. One night west of Moc Hoa, flying with Copperhead 33 we encountered NVA in the open crossing the canal from Cambodia. They had an armored vehicle which, in the dark looked like a tank but was an APC of Russian make, I believe. When the gun bunny had shot his load, I weighed in with my mini and the fifty. That gun tore the living crap outta the APC and troops in the open were just target practice for the mini. The next afternoon after the Cav had been to the scene, 33 had a sign over his bed saying, in effect, " I got more than Calley did!" We were credited with about 129 KIA and they had the rest of the night to carry off their dead and wounded. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/12/through_a_glass_darkly.html#comment-37180 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/12/through_a_glass_darkly.html#comment-37180 Fri, 30 Dec 2005 09:34:37 -0600 I won't go into specifics, but having been through convoy escort training at the Udairi complex on two occassions I can say that it's some of the best tactical training there is. MPRI (the people who run it) really do their homework. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/12/through_a_glass_darkly.html#comment-37179 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/12/through_a_glass_darkly.html#comment-37179 Fri, 30 Dec 2005 09:30:55 -0600