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Through a glass, darkly...

By The Armorer on December 30, 2005 | | Comments (14) | TrackBacks (1)

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Two highback Humvees filled with Marines from the Maritime Special Purpose Force (MSPF) of the 22nd Marine Expeditionary Unit (Special Operations Capable), practice firing their M240G medium machine guns while on the move during during live fire training on the Udari Range outside Camp Beuhring, Kuwait, Dec. 11, 2005. The 22nd MEU (SOC) is currently in Iraq conducting combat operations in the Al Anbar province. Photo by: Sgt. Robert A. Sturkie

Seeing that twigged a few memories. I couldn't find the exact pics I wanted, but I did find these. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Ya want to be able to fight on your feet, have some cover, and be able to look *down* on the countryside around you. Admittedly, Bill takes that to an extreme. Though - I do remember times at the National Training Center when I was looking *down* into the cockpits of helos and A10s from the walls of the Central Corridor during Force-on-Force ops (where they use lasers for guns). Of course, up in Live Fire, I only saw *down* into helos. For some reason, the A10's were just specks high in the sky... The Air Force doesn't really believe in "Big Sky, Little Bullet." To tell the truth, I don't think helo pilots do, either. They just don't have any choice in the matter. Remember this challenge? How many holes can you find in Hubert?

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The Vietnam era 'Gun Truck'. Used for convoy protection, the gun truck has been revived for Iraq. Only one original gun truck came back from Vietnam. This replica has been a labor of love.


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Retired Soldier: Iraq Troops Deserve Media Fairness from Voteswagon on December 30, 2005 4:28 PM

I was very appreciative to have recently read a letter from a Vietnam Vet, and that of his fellow Vietnam Vets, who support the current troops waging the war against terrorism. The letter described his feelings and emotions towards today’s soldier. I... Read More

14 Comments

By Pogue on December 30, 2005 9:30 AM
I won't go into specifics, but having been through convoy escort training at the Udairi complex on two occassions I can say that it's some of the best tactical training there is. MPRI (the people who run it) really do their homework.
 
By V29 on December 30, 2005 9:34 AM
Reminds me of our efforts to mount a .50 cal on a Huey. We succeeded, but boy oh boy did that gun shake the Sh&t outta that damn aircraft. Most effective though at taking out VC water buffalo. Had occasion once to have that fifty fired in anger. One night west of Moc Hoa, flying with Copperhead 33 we encountered NVA in the open crossing the canal from Cambodia. They had an armored vehicle which, in the dark looked like a tank but was an APC of Russian make, I believe. When the gun bunny had shot his load, I weighed in with my mini and the fifty. That gun tore the living crap outta the APC and troops in the open were just target practice for the mini. The next afternoon after the Cav had been to the scene, 33 had a sign over his bed saying, in effect, " I got more than Calley did!" We were credited with about 129 KIA and they had the rest of the night to carry off their dead and wounded.
 
By cw4(ret)billt on December 30, 2005 10:12 AM
And the week prior, they'd tried it with fifty troopies and a Ford tractor towing a reckless rifle. I was working with one of the Outlaws. Same result, but no survivors. They bulked up for the second try, which is why Two-Niner had such a target-rich environment.
 
By John of Argghhh! on December 30, 2005 10:15 AM
Heh. There are some (not who read here) who won't take the Calley comment in the spirit in which it is offered. Sometimes, you have to have crossed the meadow where the Iron Crosses grow to understand that kind of humor...
 
By SGT Jeff (IRR) on December 30, 2005 10:38 AM
Indeed. I do wonder about the Marine gun trucks above though - do they expect the enemy to be polite enough to only attack from the right side? Train as you fight guys, train as you fight.
 
By cw4(ret)billt on December 30, 2005 10:48 AM
Jeff - It's still the practice portion. And only the first two vehicles are pictured. And all the targets may be on the right. And the range cadre directing and observing may be on the *left*. Now that's out of the way, you're absolutely--heh--right...
 
By Sgt. B. on December 30, 2005 11:34 AM
The picture shows training, and the firing line is to the right. Gunning .50s on convoy, the gunner will maintain a constant sweep through his sector of fire (front guy does the front arc, tail end Charlie does the rear, and the gunners on the big trucks will scan, one to the right, one to the left, with somebody designated to keep airwatch. When a contact alert is issued, all guns orient in the same direction at first, and then adjust as other hostiles reveal themselves. The 'Nam truck that came back was "Eve of Destruction", and she is displayed at the Army Transportation Museum at Fort Eustis, Virginia. Other guntrucks of the Viet Nam era were M37s and M37B1s, like "Otto II", with various configurations of homemade armor.
 
By SezaGeoff on December 30, 2005 4:40 PM
I have just finished reading "Arms of Destruction - Ranking the World's Best Land Weapons of WWII" , and toward the end, they look at the half-tracks. Apparently the M16 was very efficient at discouraging infantry, although it was originally designed as an AA mount. Maybe it is time to go back again to proven concepts. P.S. John, how much is left in your Christmas Fund?
 
By SangerM on December 30, 2005 5:57 PM
And the MOST interesting thing about that picture of the Marines is the unit designation: 22nd Marine Expeditionary Unit (Special Operations Capable), which is a _real_ first for the Marines. The USMC hates, hates, hates the notion of special forces, and has since the days of the Marine Radiers like Carlson's, which they _never_ discuss with pride. The Marines have resisted creating SO units that would fall under SOCOM for a loooooong time, and it was only a couple of years ago that they even began to consider playing in the SO arena. Of course $$$$ motivates people in odd ways, and there is a _LOT_ of CT money being spread around, so the Marines began talking about creating a SO capable unit--folks who could operate and interoperate with the other SOF as needed. That is a picture of history in the making, and I am surprised the USMC even allowed it to be published. Every Marine is just like every other Marine, and there are NO elites in the Marines. At least that's the story I listened to for several years. V/R
 
By cw4(ret)billt on December 30, 2005 9:04 PM
Sanger - You've been out of the loop on the MEU(SOC) for a bit--they've been around for at least five years. See what happens when you move to Texas?
 
By cw4(ret)billt on December 30, 2005 9:04 PM
But you're right about the Marine brass wanting nothing to do with SOF until they saw the checks being written to the Green Machine to increase Army capabilities in that arena.
 
By SangerM on December 30, 2005 10:24 PM
Hey BillT, Hello! It's not a matter of being out of the loop, but rather that maybe that I misunderstood some of the things I heard folks talking about before I moved to Texas. I don't think I did, but then I wasn't involved directly in the data collection and reporting. Maybe what I heard pertained to the tail-end assessment of a long trial period? Hard to say...
 
By Sgt. B. on December 30, 2005 10:39 PM
The Special OPerations Capable did stuff like raid packages, NEO operations, and tactical operations that took a bit more coordination that usually required of a Marine Battalion... We let the really high speed low drag types do the stuff behind enemy lines...
 
By Jon The Mechanic on December 31, 2005 11:52 AM
About time that the Marines get on the same page as the army. When I was a light infantry grunt and out at NTC, we were doing this every time that we had a ride. Otherwise we were using the LPCs to get from A to B.
 
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