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  <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2012://1/tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.5011-</id>
  <updated>2012-01-06T18:50:56Z</updated>
  <title>Comments for Fighting Insurgents.</title>
  <subtitle>We&apos;re the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost.  All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT,  and KA 2003-2010</subtitle>
  <generator uri="http://www.sixapart.com/movabletype/">Movable Type 4.12</generator>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.5011</id>
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    <link rel="service.edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/cgi-bin/mt41/mt-atom.cgi/weblog/blog_id=1/entry_id=5011" title="Fighting Insurgents." />
    <published>2005-12-21T20:41:02Z</published>
    <updated>2006-11-11T16:53:20Z</updated>
    <title>Fighting Insurgents.</title>
    <summary>Hmmmm. Al-Reuters, 21 Dec 05 On December 21, 2005, Al-Qaeda fighters, Ba-athist militiamen, and Sunni Insurgents staged an ambush some three miles from FOB Kearny, in the Sunni Triangle. Ordered to rescue a besieged logistics convoy, Captain William J. Fetterman and 80 soldiers were decoyed over MSR Cheyenne by a small number of Insurgents led by the young jihadi warrior, Abd al-Aziz, into a trap where over 1000 insurgents waited in hiding. Fetterman&apos;s pursuit over the MSR, in violation of the ROE, led to the death of his entire command. The shooting started about noon, and was over by 12:30....</summary>
    <author>
      <name>The Armorer</name>
      <uri>http://www.thedonovan.com</uri>
    </author>
    
    <category term="Historical Stuff" />
    
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      <![CDATA[<p>Hmmmm.</p>

<blockquote>
Al-Reuters, 21 Dec 05     On December 21, 2005,  Al-Qaeda fighters, Ba-athist militiamen, and Sunni Insurgents  staged an ambush some three miles from FOB Kearny, in the Sunni Triangle. Ordered to rescue a besieged logistics convoy, Captain William J. Fetterman and 80 soldiers were decoyed over MSR Cheyenne by a small number of Insurgents led by the young jihadi warrior,  Abd al-Aziz, into a trap where over 1000 insurgents waited in hiding. Fetterman's pursuit over the MSR, in violation of the ROE, led to the death of his entire command.

<p>     The shooting started about noon, and was over by 12:30. Many of the bodies were found by Capt. Ten Eyck  that afternoon. They were stipped and mutilated much in the same manner as were the contractors at the Fallujah Bridge earlier.  </blockquote></p>

<p>If that news item were real, can you imagine the calls for disengagement - how we were losing the war and should just pull out?</p>

<p>The clever among have already figured this out.  The event described above happened.  On this day in 1866, when the US Army of the Plains was fighting a wily enemy on his own turf.</p>

<p><b><a href="http://www.wyomingbnb-ranchrec.com/History.FettermanFight.html">The Fetterman Massacre</a></b>.</p>

<p>The situations are different, the motivations are different, certainly on our side (though I'm sure Kossacks will snort at that).  I'm sure there are those on the insurgent side in Iraq who would comfortably identify with the Cheyenne, Arapaho and Sioux warriors on that cold December morning in 1866.  </p>

<p>But if they do - they should perhaps take a good look at where that fight led...</p>

<p>And we know where that victory led... the <b><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagon_Box_Fight">Wagon Box Fight </a></b>in 1867, and ultimately, through Little Big Horn to Wounded Knee.</p>

<p>You can't really push this analogy too far.  The stakes and motivations are vastly different - but a salient point remains the same:  Far better for the insurgents to win their power through the ballot box, by joining the consensus, and helping shape the future - than fight it and lose.</p>]]>
      
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  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.5011-comment:36851</id>
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    <title>Comment from jim b on 2005-12-22</title>
    <author>
        <name>jim b</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        Just what I told that zoomie.  I forgot he don&apos;t care he isn&apos;t ont he ground.  He&apos;s back in the gunfighter&apos;s club suckin down drinks so he can sober up on oxygen in the morning.

BTW just came back from the pawn shop.  They still have that Webley MK IV in the showcase for $249.00.  Too bad I don&apos;t want it.
    </content>
    <published>2005-12-22T23:04:24Z</published>
    <updated>2005-12-22T23:04:24Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.5011-comment:36845</id>
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    <title>Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2005-12-22</title>
    <author>
        <name>John of Argghhh!</name>
        <uri>http://www.thedonovan.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.thedonovan.com">
        Those Zoomies are in danger of falling into the trap of &quot;All the wars we&apos;ll ever fight will be like the one&apos;s we&apos;re fighting now.&quot;

We tried just that - mortars and air only - in Afghanistan.

The Zoomies weren&apos;t always on-station.  And they weren&apos;t all weather.  And their smallest ordnance was a bit big for danger close.  And sometimes the mortars couldn&apos;t reach everything.

The artillery *is* a seriously diminished branch already.  We&apos;ve eliminated/eliminating the Corps Artillery cannon units - their place is being taken by the Air Force.  All we&apos;re keeping for long range shooters are the rocket units (which the Air Force *likes* for Air Defense suppression...)

But, if we *ever* have to fight in the Korean peninsula, or against someone on the line of Iran, India, Russia, or China - someone with an Air Force and a credible Air Defense system - then there won&apos;t be all those planes around, and a few battalion volleys of 155mm will be *very* useful.
    </content>
    <published>2005-12-22T20:40:04Z</published>
    <updated>2005-12-22T20:40:04Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.5011-comment:36841</id>
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    <title>Comment from jim b on 2005-12-22</title>
    <author>
        <name>jim b</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        Thanks for the reminder about Artillery Journal on line.  Am currently in a discussion with some zoomies as to why mortars and bombers are not a replacement for field artie.

BTW on the Artillery Journal thingie, there is a magazine reference for treadheads magazine, I clicked it but it is busted.  You just can never find a tank when you want one.



    </content>
    <published>2005-12-22T20:30:14Z</published>
    <updated>2005-12-22T20:30:14Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.5011-comment:36813</id>
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    <title>Comment from cw4(ret)billt on 2005-12-22</title>
    <author>
        <name>cw4(ret)billt</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        MCart - Yeah, kind of along the lines of, 

&quot;Sir, we&apos;re surrounded!&quot;

&quot;Perfect. They won&apos;t get away *this* time...&quot;
    </content>
    <published>2005-12-22T15:00:21Z</published>
    <updated>2005-12-22T15:00:21Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.5011-comment:36809</id>
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    <title>Comment from MCart on 2005-12-22</title>
    <author>
        <name>MCart</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        
Misspelled &apos;Insurgents&apos; in your &apos;news&apos; clip. :)

Soon as I hit that I became highly suspicious. Nice lead-in though.

I was starting to think &apos;A THOUSAND, in ONE PLACE? WHAT AN OPPORTUNITY!!!&quot;
    </content>
    <published>2005-12-22T08:08:42Z</published>
    <updated>2005-12-22T08:08:42Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.5011-comment:36803</id>
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    <title>Comment from Lyn on 2005-12-21</title>
    <author>
        <name>Lyn</name>
        <uri>http://blogginoutloud.blogspot.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://blogginoutloud.blogspot.com">
        Responding to your question at Bloggin&apos; Outloud: Only 2. (and yep, blogger html tags are limited :-) no smileys either!  But I&apos;ll keep plugging away at &quot;KS news in the national spotlight&quot; and someday will attract more.  lol  But now that I know you&apos;re from Leavenworth, I&apos;ll post an entry from Argghhh! next Monday!  No one escapes my all seeing blog. :wink: Congrats on your top Mil Blog win, btw. (That&apos;s why I felt okay about the TB, I do mention you in the post! :-)  Have a great Christmas. lgp
    </content>
    <published>2005-12-22T03:36:17Z</published>
    <updated>2005-12-22T03:36:17Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.5011-comment:36797</id>
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    <title>Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2005-12-21</title>
    <author>
        <name>John of Argghhh!</name>
        <uri>http://www.thedonovan.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.thedonovan.com">
        Not on my subscription list... but mebbe they&apos;re online (tappity-tappity).  

Heh.  Nope.  Feh.  Field Artillery Journal has everything online.  What&apos;s up with the Treadheads?
    </content>
    <published>2005-12-21T22:40:07Z</published>
    <updated>2005-12-21T22:40:07Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.5011-comment:36796</id>
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    <title>Comment from Mike Greene on 2005-12-21</title>
    <author>
        <name>Mike Greene</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        There was an excellent article on this battle in the last issue if Armor Magazine. It&apos;s well worth the read, if you can lay your hands on it.
    </content>
    <published>2005-12-21T22:31:14Z</published>
    <updated>2005-12-21T22:31:14Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
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