We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2010 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html Sat, 24 Mar 2012 15:58:43 Z Movable Type 4.12 en Copyright 2012 http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification Just got this note from Bob at Confederate Yankee. There is a thread up over at Protein Wisdom where a poster claiming to be a Vietnam veteran states: Technically, WP and smoke rounds (HC) are classified as chemical weapons. Is that true? [Armorer, only in that they are classified as obscurants - whose primary purpose is *not* attack of personnel] He further states that: Note also that smoke generators are operated by the Chemical Corps. [Yep. Not relevant, however. Chemical smoke isn't a weapon, either, though you shouldn't breathe anything with that particulate load for long times or in high... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html Tue, 22 Nov 2005 11:13:04 -0600 Personally, I'm happy to watch the handwringing over WP being a chemical weapon. It changed the topic from all the radiation poisoning DU was causing. If your garden variety lefty can't figure out what "depleted" means, what the heck makes you think they'll actually examine the relevant treaty for a definition of a chemical munition? And when they get tired of that, we can expect "Bush lied! Huh? He didn't? Ummm.... LOOK! Abu Ghraib!" http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html#comment-35171 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html#comment-35171 Thu, 24 Nov 2005 00:42:07 -0600 IS this where the black humor of 'product of the lowest bidder' is comes from? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html#comment-35169 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html#comment-35169 Thu, 24 Nov 2005 00:13:39 -0600 Heh. A Dutch chem firm tested the efficacy of US MOPP gear back in 1986 by placing a sheet of detector paper under a new jacket and allowing a droplet of VX to plop onto it from a 10-foot height, simulating the effect of the agent hitting the MOPP at 25% of the velocity of the stuff during a live attack. *blip-slurp* Right through to the paper in two seconds. The Dutch techie's comment was, "So, who designs your chem suits for you--the enemy?" http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html#comment-35134 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html#comment-35134 Wed, 23 Nov 2005 07:30:59 -0600 Hee! Around the One-Two-Zoo, the Brit coveralls were coveted items, as they were a *lot* more comfortable than the US-issue suits (which is turns out were probably worthless, too). I made mine last until 1984, when we were ordered to quit using them. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html#comment-35129 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html#comment-35129 Wed, 23 Nov 2005 07:16:25 -0600 whenever there was "incoming." The Sovs supposedly had a mix of round types sitting in their ready racks, and were as likely to use chem as anything else. I never did find out if this was hoopla or otherwise, but that was the story, and we all stuck to it.... For my part, considering what chem agents would do to a person, I was more than happy to wear the mopp suit all the time (at least after we got rid of those goofy British coveralls). ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html#comment-35110 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html#comment-35110 Tue, 22 Nov 2005 22:00:47 -0600 Well Greg, As I posted before.... last time I checked, TNT and PETN were all organic chemicals as well. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html#comment-35107 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html#comment-35107 Tue, 22 Nov 2005 21:23:09 -0600 MY GOD! I never knew that my city was trying to kill me each Forth of July by shooting chemical weapons in the air. OH THE HORROR! All of that toxic smoke from fireworks! We should all be dead! GOTT IM HIMMEL, every country on Earth has access to these deadly chemical weapons. Who knew that the peaceful Chinese were selling cheap chemical weapons to individual citizens at the Crazy Bill's Firework stand. Maybe my National Guard unit should attack my garage to clean out my stocks of chemical weapons. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html#comment-35106 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html#comment-35106 Tue, 22 Nov 2005 19:56:52 -0600 heh...gamer, that was funny. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html#comment-35104 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html#comment-35104 Tue, 22 Nov 2005 18:10:33 -0600 Rules for using the law for lefties: 1) Define whatever elements are necessary to make the crime. 2) When the US is clearly operating legally, ignore the law on the grounds that it is not strict enough to capture the moral necessities of the situation. See also: Interrogation/Torture http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html#comment-35099 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html#comment-35099 Tue, 22 Nov 2005 17:35:51 -0600 Sheesh - You can't swing a dead horse without hiting a whacked Moonbat in these here parts! It seems that with so many psychotropic chemicals in their brains, The Yeller' Left is seeing Chemicals everywhere they turn. Oh, the innanities!!! http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html#comment-35098 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html#comment-35098 Tue, 22 Nov 2005 17:32:46 -0600 I think I know where the WP as chemical warfare came form. When I went through NBC NCO school in 1985 (Cold War days, remember?) They were teaching that since smoke made an excellent obscurent for a chemical attack that we should consider ourselves in a chemical environment if the Soviets launched smoke against us. I don't know how deep this doctrine went, but it was what we were taught. (July 1985, Ft Drum) http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html#comment-35095 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html#comment-35095 Tue, 22 Nov 2005 16:57:39 -0600 Looking over at the thread at Protein Wisdom, *at last check, anyway* no one was referring to the WP bit anymore, having chosen to focus on torture, instead. Thread was moving that way anyway, but still wonder if they are now ignoring the elephant in the living room having had the UN thrown in their face. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html#comment-35092 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html#comment-35092 Tue, 22 Nov 2005 16:14:46 -0600 head twisting from day one. The intentional ignorance and fearmonging propaganda from the the Left in OUR country is just otherworldly. If a bunch of quasi-edu'mu'cated bloggers can get to the truth and explain it to the non-company folks - why is this so hard? Then again, why let the facts get in the way of a good story...... Thanks for keeping to beat this dead horse, some still think it is a winner and need reminding.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html#comment-35091 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html#comment-35091 Tue, 22 Nov 2005 16:09:03 -0600 (pdf) fact sheet) ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html#comment-35087 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html#comment-35087 Tue, 22 Nov 2005 14:37:30 -0600 Well to settle things I think we should pop a WP 100 meters upwind of everyone claiming it is a chemical round. After the smoke settles, I vote we pop a Sarin round 100 meters upwind of them and see if they note any difference. One way or the other it should settle things eh? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html#comment-35085 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html#comment-35085 Tue, 22 Nov 2005 14:03:19 -0600 Sigh, hi, Phil. Can't you *ever* get topical with your posting'bot? Sheesh. As a visitor, you have an obligation to be topical. Away with your drivel, unless you want to be on-topic. Anything else, no matter how passionately you feel about it, I consider spam, and retain at my whim. I'm not feeling whimsical today. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html#comment-35082 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html#comment-35082 Tue, 22 Nov 2005 13:50:38 -0600 “What a pompous a$$hole!” [Emphasis mine. The irony here is Phil's last sentence is autobiographical. No pottymouth without permission, Phil.] ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html#comment-35081 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html#comment-35081 Tue, 22 Nov 2005 13:46:35 -0600 Yer friendly, neighborhood Vietnam vet checking in--the only thing we used artillery-fired WP for was marking center of sector when everthing went featureless in haze, the smoke from burning rice paddies (relax--the farmers set the fires to get rid of the straw) or mist. If we wanted to scare the VC/NVA below, we'd drop a WP grenade from 1,500 feet and the big, white *poof* would scare them into thinking they were in for a pasting if they didn't scoot. I've flown through the airburst from a 175mm WP round--it stunk, but didn't kill us a bit. *Or* set us on fire, and the Huey was a champ at catching fire at the most inconvenient times... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html#comment-35061 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/11/wp_in_fallujah_lets_end_this.html#comment-35061 Tue, 22 Nov 2005 11:33:15 -0600