We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2007 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/reporting_out_from_the_disaster_area.html Sun, 03 Aug 2008 17:18:40 Z Movable Type 4.12 en Copyright 2008 http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification First, Seawitch, a fellow Project Valour-IT blogger, who lives in the devastated region: As someone who lives in Gulfport and went through Hurricane Katrina and has been without power for 10 days, all I can say is that I amazed at the criticism going on. The Seabees in Gulfport are rebuilding our communities schools. The National Guard is handing out water, ice, MRE's. Keesler Air Force Base had damage to 30% of it's base but has sent out crews to clear roads and has diverted one of it's water towers to the city of Biloxi so it's citizens can have... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/reporting_out_from_the_disaster_area.html http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/reporting_out_from_the_disaster_area.html Thu, 08 Sep 2005 05:50:41 -0600 Boots - You've twigged it. If the Guard is mobilized under Title 32, USC, the gummint foots the bill, the state governor commands and the Guard augments the law enforcement agencies with the same authority and restrictions as those on the cops. Posse Comitatus is a non-issue. Federal troops and federalized Guardsmen are Title 10, USC, and Sam owns them--that's where Posse Comitatus kicks in. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/reporting_out_from_the_disaster_area.html#comment-31844 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/reporting_out_from_the_disaster_area.html#comment-31844 Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:14:09 -0600 Wow. CAP gets some love. Forced evacuation rubs me the wrong way, too, but just about anybody who stays is at risk for a wide variety of very nasty diseases and thus probably pose a public health threat. I think of it as akin to the FDA closing down a restaurant after patrons get food poisoning until they can be inspected and proven to be clear - and a cholera epidemic, in addition to affecting those who are currently in shelters, would also target search and rescue and disaster relief personnel, which is an unneccessary risk. The only reason I could think of to use federal troops to assist in the evacuation period would be if it's beyond the scope of local law enforcement - which this quite obviously is. It occurs to me, however, that the state could call up the Guard and use them as state troops, not federal. If I understand the Posse Comitatus Act correctly, all the federal restrictions on using the National Guard for law enforcement purposes don't apply when they're under the authority of the governor of the state - then it goes to state-specific restrictions, which I'm not familiar with. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/reporting_out_from_the_disaster_area.html#comment-31838 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/reporting_out_from_the_disaster_area.html#comment-31838 Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:35:23 -0600 For something somewhat off the subject, but I must clarify: I was not commanding that BFIST, it was ONE of my BFISTs. I think what I said was: "Funny thing is that Goblins picture is actually one of my M7 BFIST during OIF. If you look closely, the bumper number says 1-10 F as in 1st BN, 10th FA, 3 BDE, 3 ID, Ft. Benning GA" Sorry for the confusion, I owned the BFIST in that I was the Battery Commander. The actually track commander was LT Jackson, and I would never want to take credit away from any of my soldiers. Still, great things going on here in MS and things are getting better each day. I have an interesting story about the Politics of this whole thing... NORTHCOM asked us if we in MS needed the USS Comfort (Hospital Ship) for any patients. After getting with FEMA, MEMA, and the MSNG it was determined that MS currently had enough hospital bed space and had other hospitals coming up on-line with-in a couple of days. The effort to get electricity restored is truely heroic. So we decided that it would be better if the Comfort moved on to LA, specifically N.O. Well we ended up getting calls earlier this evening from Navy Admirals and NORTHCOM asking us to clarify our possitions, because SEN Lott had promissed that the Comfort would be there in a news conference. In the mean time we have a Carnival Cruise Ship due in in two days to take on a bunch of homeless. But because of the damaged dock space there is no way we can hold both the Comfort and the Cruise Ship. So now we're jumping through our butt to dock the USS Comfort for one day then have it move on to N.O. just to satisfy the promise of a Senator. Oh, I just love it when politics and the military mix. But, other than that little snaffu, things are getting better and better. Thanks for all of your support. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/reporting_out_from_the_disaster_area.html#comment-31668 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/reporting_out_from_the_disaster_area.html#comment-31668 Thu, 08 Sep 2005 23:49:27 -0600 It's a bitch, Sanger... but I have to think that one of the proper duties of gummint includes protecting the populace against the rise- and spread- of disease under circumstances like those that exist in N'Awlins. Lotsa things have been botched so far during and after Katrina; it could be that getting the last hold-outs out of that festering sewer might be the right thing to do. I dunno... but it seems logical to me, hard though that is to accept. I'm just glad it's not my decision. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/reporting_out_from_the_disaster_area.html#comment-31665 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/reporting_out_from_the_disaster_area.html#comment-31665 Thu, 08 Sep 2005 21:42:34 -0600 I certainly understand, Top(P). Truth is, as in many situations, I am just glad I am not the one who has to make those calls. As for FL, I was up in the panhandle when Ivan hit last year (I think you were still elsewhere). We had all kinds of folks in Pensacola and Ft. Walton get whacked who didn't leave. As I wrote elsewhere, we stayed, but I wouldn't do it again. Sometime, experience has to be first hand. As for the rest, I certainly understand your point too, Neffi, but ... Damn ... it really just rubs me wrong to think about making someone leave his own property. It's kind of like the arguments about gun ownership. There are a hundred good reasons for banning gun ownership; but the law of the land says we can own guns and there is no built-in qualification that says otherwise (in spite of some lefty interpretations). Of course this is all academic. The right thing to do is to clear the area, fix things, then let people come back in. Even so, it's a hard concept for my anit-authoritarian brain to accept... And congrats on the 1SG, MSG Kieth. Good Deal. -SangerM http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/reporting_out_from_the_disaster_area.html#comment-31664 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/reporting_out_from_the_disaster_area.html#comment-31664 Thu, 08 Sep 2005 21:31:55 -0600 And hey- congrats, Top. I'm buying the first round... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/reporting_out_from_the_disaster_area.html#comment-31657 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/reporting_out_from_the_disaster_area.html#comment-31657 Thu, 08 Sep 2005 19:29:46 -0600 As a man who firmly believes that my house is my castle, the idea of forced evacuation grits my teeth... but from what I've read concerning the situation in NO, there are genuine fears of cholera and/or typhus taking hold. And then you've got another can of worms... If it happens, it will be Bush's fault, of course. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/reporting_out_from_the_disaster_area.html#comment-31656 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/reporting_out_from_the_disaster_area.html#comment-31656 Thu, 08 Sep 2005 19:23:20 -0600 SM, Actually, he's doing the legal thing. Without a declaration of martial law, US forces can't force evacuation. That's assisting law enforcement, something only non-federalized national guard troops can do. Only problem with not enforcing it is when one of them goes floating down the river face down, then the authorities take it on the chin for allowing them to stay. Either that or they'll stay, then expect the Guard to bring them food and water. During one of our storms here in Florida last year, we were listening to the local radio station reporting from the county EOC. An elderly couple, both in their 90's and both in wheelchairs decided not to heed the evacuation order and to stay in their MOBILE HOME during the storm. When it caved in around them and they caller 911, the Sheriff, to his credit, told them, "as soon as the eye gets here, we'll come get you. I'm not sending my guys out in 120 mph winds to rescue you." Serves them right. MSG(soon to be 1SG) Keith http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/reporting_out_from_the_disaster_area.html#comment-31650 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/reporting_out_from_the_disaster_area.html#comment-31650 Thu, 08 Sep 2005 17:14:22 -0600 Of all the things I've read, LTG Honore's order that no federal troops help w/ forced evacuations is the best. This could be the single most intelligent and foresightful decision anyone has made in years! I am still not convinced that it is entirely legal to force Americans to leave their property if they decide they don't want to leave, and are willing to accept the consequences. I understand the reasons for making them leave--It'd be stupid to stay--but hey, this IS America, and most of us are assumed to be free-ranging adults, responsible for our own actions. Even so, it would be *terrible* if the US Army got wrapped up in forcing Americans from their property w/out much more justification than the lack of infrastructure. Personally, I would never follow an order to force another American off his or her property. But then, I'd be willing to accept the consquences. Just sayin' -SangerM http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/reporting_out_from_the_disaster_area.html#comment-31630 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/reporting_out_from_the_disaster_area.html#comment-31630 Thu, 08 Sep 2005 08:21:34 -0600