We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2010 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html Fri, 06 Jan 2012 18:52:44 Z Movable Type 4.12 en Copyright 2012 http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification I got this in email yesterday, a story from NewsMax, with the email labeled, "This won't play well in Peoria." Which is true enough, on first scan: Reprinted from NewsMax.com Wednesday, Sept. 7, 2005 9:41 a.m. EDT Military Reprimands Navy Rescuers Two Navy helicopter pilots were reprimanded for their actions after Hurricane Katrina struck – they rescued more than 100 people and brought them to safety. Lt. David Shand and Lt. Matt Udkow each piloted H-3 helicopters out of Pensacola, Fla., and were ordered to deliver emergency food, water and other supplies to Stennis Space Center in Mississippi on Tuesday,... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html Thu, 08 Sep 2005 04:59:51 -0600 Fair enough. The story was newsworthy, and made us all look like the very model of a modern major general - the icon of what many on the left see us as. I tried to get more info. If you're under a gag order, okay. My offer still stands - when you can tell the story - and want to - I'll give you the space to do it. Blogs are a discussion - as such, the discussion evolves. Just as it is here. Truthfully, I regret having put the post up, if not entirely for the reasons you might wish - but they are included, surely. As Jason said in an email to me, "I don't know who you are" and in a sense, that's now true of me with you - no, I'm not suggesting that you're not who you appear to be - only that I have no way of knowing. I don't think you would have any problem correcting errors of fact (such as my characterization of your career, as provided to me by others, for example) without touching on the incident in question. If you'd like - to establish our bona-fides, contact my at my blog email (just click on my name, above) from your .mil address, and I'll respond from my .mil address. I don't want to give you more grief, nor get you in trouble, or more trouble - but since the Googlebot has stored these posts, I'd like to give you the chance to say your side - when you can. That's all. I'll post any corrections you wish to provide. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html#comment-31809 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html#comment-31809 Mon, 12 Sep 2005 17:54:07 -0600 I am still an officer in the military, and as such I am not at liberty to share the info about the incident. You all imply that I went against orders... come on, I have been flying for almost 9 years in the Navy. Do you really think I would just decide to ignore the orders given to me? What angers me is that your site makes me out the be the villan. That I went to the press. That I disobeyed orders. That I threw a fit. I believe in the freedom of speach, but to trash other military members with out getting the story... sir, you and your blog posters are doing a disrespect toward your fellow service men. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html#comment-31808 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html#comment-31808 Mon, 12 Sep 2005 17:15:44 -0600 I think I just heard from LT. Udkow. I understand from Jason you're a little tired about talking to people about this. Got that. And I'll be happy to put up your side of the story, computer-punching nerd or not. And I realize that you don't know me, and you haven't read the blog - but I've got my warrior t-shirt, too, Lieutenant. I will agree with the arm-chair quarterback stuff. Guilty there. But just coming in here and throwing a tantrum, however well earned, doesn't advance your cause. As I said - I've got the space if you'd like to tell your side of the story. Happy to provide it - and I'll link it in every post here that mentions the incident, so Googlers will hear your side. Cheers. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html#comment-31807 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html#comment-31807 Mon, 12 Sep 2005 16:58:40 -0600 You are all a bunch of arm-chair quarterbacks, and you don't even have your facts correct that you so called checked. It is nice to be sh*t on by a bunch of tools that don't even know the half of the story. I did not leak the story, so I can not give you all any info (not like you deserve any). I just get pissed when a bunch of computer punching nerds feel they have the right to trash my career. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html#comment-31806 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html#comment-31806 Mon, 12 Sep 2005 16:25:08 -0600 I got my 'data' from a Navy 06 in the naval aviation community. Like I said - I was asking for the other side. And if you know LT Udkow, I'd be happy to hear the story from him... and I'll give him space to put it out there. That said - this *still* shouldn't have gotten out in the press... howinthehell did *that* happen? Thanks for the update - and I'm serious. I'm happy to put Udkow's side out there and make corrections - on the front page - not in the comments. Can ya help me with that? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html#comment-31800 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html#comment-31800 Mon, 12 Sep 2005 10:37:01 -0600 Jason, You certainly have a right to defend Udkow since you know him. However, and I will say this without mincing words, John gave it from *his* perspective, which I asked for, and also gave Lt. Udkow a chance to respond. Just because he has character doesn't mean he is good at everything. Nothing in John's comments comes across as being snide, unless it is the point of view of the Army equivalent of a full commander who has had to tell people that they are an important part of a bigger picture and it takes cooperation to make it all happen. I have heard some really nasty things about the rescue efforts from a conspiracy theorist's garbage regarding Falls Church, OK to the use of mercernaries who were in Iraq and have been targeted as baby killing bullies by the MSM. He gave you an opportunity to tell Udkow's side of the story. He never said that the rescue was not a good thing. If you know something different, I would like to hear it instead of how your fellow officer was maligned. John, thanks for giving me a bigger picture. I appreciate it. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html#comment-31799 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html#comment-31799 Mon, 12 Sep 2005 10:29:23 -0600 You have your facts wrong. I know LT Udkow personally and he has more character than 95% of the officers I have encountered in my 10 years of naval service. He is not a reservist looking for some weekend-warrior glory. He is the senior aircraft commander at NAS Pensacola, and he is regular navy. He has been in the navy for just under 10 years and is just now eligible to be looked at for O-4, so your snide comments about him being a crappy officer are unfounded. The other LT is a mustang (prior enlisted), which means he busted his butt to get a commission from the enlisted ranks and also has not been passed over for any promotions. There were no more log runs that day - no more supplies to deliver. No mission was compromised by their actions. Nothing was diverted or rescheduled because of their efforts. Get your facts straight. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html#comment-31798 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html#comment-31798 Mon, 12 Sep 2005 09:52:13 -0600 And, if anyone knows this guy - I'll be happy to let him put *his* side of the story out. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html#comment-31739 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html#comment-31739 Sat, 10 Sep 2005 05:43:47 -0600 If it went as SGT Jeff sez, he probably would have been fine, in most respects. The reason I posted what I did was to provide background that the original MSM report didn't have. You can spin this lots of ways - perhaps his diversion from his log mission caused other birds to run out of fuel and so, even though Our Hero is rescuing people, *two* helos are now idle, waiting on him to complete his mission... There are other scenarios, but my whole point was this - The original story essentially took Udkow's side, with no elaboration. To this retired soldier, the story, as written, required Cdr Holdener to be a complete ass with no redeeming virtues. Entirely possible - but given the nature of the mission, etc, just didn't seem likely. So I asked a naval aviator about hit. Who called around. And who got info, that when ladled into the story, made it all hang together. Udkow is a Naval reservist. This is not important in and of itself. When you add to that the fact that he is a Lieutenant (Captain-equivalent in the other services) for 13 years - in a service which generally promotes to Lieutenant Commander (Major-equivalent) *before* the other services... (which generally promote at 10 years)that is a data point that says he's probably a very good pilot... but not a very good officer. So, he answers the call, and lets say it goes as SGT Jeff suggests. He returns to Pensacola. Air Boss sez, "See me". Udkow, clad in his righteousness, goes in either *expecting* a fight (because of radio discussions) or a pat on the back. Cdr Holdener sez words to the effect of "Great, you saved some people. You also self-fragged off of the mission, a mission which is part and parcel of the overall rescue mission going on - the logisitics must flow in order to keep the whole thing running. Don't do that again - unless the people needing rescue are along your flight plan. Now get outta here. Or something to that effect. It might also have been a profanity-laced butt chewing. Udkow could have left at that point - and everything would have been fine. But no, he gets insubordinate and gets into a shouting match with Cdr Holdener. Then finds himself in charge of the animal shelter. So he finds a reporter and makes the Navy look bad when, in my estimation - he's the idiot. Not for diverting per se, though there are lots of reasons he shouldn't have done that. But for being a baby. Which is probably why he's a 13-year Lieutenant, too. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html#comment-31738 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html#comment-31738 Sat, 10 Sep 2005 05:42:38 -0600 I have a question: How do disaster calls work then? I am not defending the LT. I think what he did was uncalled for and he should have taken the a&&chewing and backed off, grateful that he wasn't kicked out. However, given that he did hear the SOS, how would something like that work? I am also asking because supposedly that is the rule at sea. Enlightenment is asked for and I am in my meditation pose chanting my mantra: "Oooooooooooooowwwwwwww wwwwwwwwaaaaaatt aaaaaaa ggggggoooooooooossssseeeeee IIIIIII aaaaaaaaaam." heh. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html#comment-31733 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html#comment-31733 Fri, 09 Sep 2005 21:42:50 -0600 ...and then got in a pissing contest with their boss... which was probably the final kicker in this sorry story. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html#comment-31695 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html#comment-31695 Fri, 09 Sep 2005 11:39:13 -0600 He heard a plea from the Coast Guard and answered. P-cola was out of radio range. I think the real problem was that after completing the immediate rescue mission, they self-fragged themselves a few more, until they were out of fuel. Then they landed somewhere and claim to have gotten telephonic approval of what they were doing. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html#comment-31693 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html#comment-31693 Fri, 09 Sep 2005 11:32:32 -0600 Ah - No good deed goes unpunished. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html#comment-31641 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html#comment-31641 Thu, 08 Sep 2005 12:47:56 -0600 I don't think he even saw people - he heard the call on Guard or the collective rescue channel and went hunting. But yeah, this shoulda been a no-noise, no-brainer. It just makes the Navy, which is doing yeoman work (literally and figuratively) look dumb. I put this up to at least get both sides out, not to make the Navy look worse. Because lets face it - the media wasn't going to! At least now it will be in Google. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html#comment-31640 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html#comment-31640 Thu, 08 Sep 2005 12:24:32 -0600 So this guy is flying along on a logistics mission and sees some folks he thinks need rescuing and that is not part of his mission. There is this thing called a radio in the cockpit. Did this guy ask the boss if it was ok to divert for rescue ops? Also, he supposedly rescued 100 people. That involves one hell of a lot of time/distance/fuel to pull off. Weren't the folks back at Pensacola keeping track of this guy? My guess is that he reported what he was doing and the boss let him do it. Then, after the mission, the boss gave him a little private training lesson. There were quite a few times in my career that I didn't exactly agree with my superiors; but the only proper response to something like that is "Yes sir. Lesson learned." http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html#comment-31639 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html#comment-31639 Thu, 08 Sep 2005 12:11:45 -0600 No argument on that point! :) http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html#comment-31633 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html#comment-31633 Thu, 08 Sep 2005 08:45:26 -0600 Oh, everybody looks like an idiot in this, Fuzzybear, but Udkow, if he's the one that went to the press, is a Compleat Idiot. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html#comment-31632 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html#comment-31632 Thu, 08 Sep 2005 08:25:22 -0600 Dang, I wondered the same thing when I saw the article, but I forgot about Lex's connections to Florida... Maybe I coulda scooped ya, John! Also I found it interesting that according to the article, a few others in the squadron have removed their Search & Rescue patches from their uniforms in protest. Sounds like a bid for a mini-rebellion. I wonder what other history may be involved here (on both sides). (And no, I'm not defending the LT's behavior.) http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html#comment-31629 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/09/a_little_digging_is_useful.html#comment-31629 Thu, 08 Sep 2005 07:56:02 -0600