We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2010 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html Sat, 24 Mar 2012 16:01:52 Z Movable Type 4.12 en Copyright 2012 http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification June 6th... 1775 NY patriots prevent the Royal Governor from removing weapons from the city - I wonder how many would stand up to the Governor today? 1813 US invasion of Canada halted at Stoney Creek (Ont). Heh. Someday we'll get it right... ;^) 1898 Marines land at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba - Prisoners abused - Korans mistreated! 1918 Marines secure Belleau Wood. Midway! The Tide Turns in the Naval War in the Pacific. 1942 Japanese troops land on Kiska in the Aleutians. Along with Attu, the only bits of continental US dirt successfully captured during WWII. 1943 Japanese decide to... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html Mon, 06 Jun 2005 06:56:48 -0600 I think the cemetary scene at the end of SPR was necessary to show the bridge of the Greatest Generation from that frozen moment in the past to what they've become today. The visual narrative began with the Captain, but didn't stay with him exclusively, so it didn't feel wrong to me. The final scene is one of the most emotional moments in cinema for me, almost like Spock dying. I'm such a geek.... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26309 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26309 Tue, 07 Jun 2005 13:58:38 -0600 I haven't watched either of those movies, for the reasons mentioned above. I had a strong interest in WWII as a child and read about it voraciously, so I doubt much of it would be new. But the emotional impact would just be too much for me. My high school history teacher showed us a documentary with graphic footage of the German concentration camps--the facilities, the bodies, interviews, etc. I was glad I saw it, but instantly knew that I never wanted to see anything like that again. I'll never forget the feeling of silently walking out of the darkened classroom and back the bright sunshine and the wrenching shift back into my little world that didn't include that kind of horror. Yes Kat, the knowledge of what people can do to each other... Strangely, I DO own a DVD of the soundtrack of Shindler's List. It was actually hearing the music that convinced me I wouldn't want to see the movie itself. Too much. I once played an excerpt of it for a writing exercise with 8th-graders. I simply told them it was a movie soundtrack (only one ended up already knowing anything about the film) and had them write what they thought was happening in the movie or what it was about. It was extraordinary how accurately they nailed the emotion and broad concepts of the movie, though most hardly even knew what WWII was. They used words like "Evil, horror, war, mass death, pain, cruel." The power of music... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26304 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26304 Tue, 07 Jun 2005 12:46:15 -0600 Sanger...I saw it like you're wife. I couldn't watch it again either. It had me up and down so many times that I thought I was going to throw up. It was like being assaulted for 2 hours. Assaulted with the knowledge of what people can do to each other. I was thinking half way through "OMG! Just save them already!" Even though I knew that so many were never saved or even had the chance. It was like being there. I agree about the very end, when he's staring at the grave, but I think that I had the story as coming from different memories of those that left, not just that one guy. He was just the add on in the end to make it come together. The "earn it" scene was the "last scene" for me, but I have wondered if the view of the cemetary was just supposed to be a reminder that, the story was about one group of men and there were thousands of men like that. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26302 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26302 Tue, 07 Jun 2005 11:45:55 -0600 My wife and I saw Schindler's List together, but we discovered later we watched it through very different eyes. For her, a lot was new and very unexpected, and she said many times it was like being physically assaulted for 2+ hours. For me it was different. Imagine, if you can, being told all through your childhood about a horrible event that occurred before you were born, and reading about that event from the time you learned to read, and thinking about that event, and dreaming about that event, and crying for the people who lived and died in that time and place, and hating the people who were responsible for murdering your WHOLE family, then living for six years in the place where it occurred, with the people who did it, and then, after nearly 30 years of all that, being able to travel back in time to actually witness the event. Without being seen by the people there. That is exactly how it felt. My wife saw it as something new. I, on the other hand, watched it with the eye of a hobbyist/ historian, looking for the inconsistencies, seeking the flaws, and mentally checking off the things I expected to see as they occurred. It was almost like watching old home movies in some ways, which made it all the worse, in many ways. It was horrible, and I don't need to see it again. I can close my eyes and replay a good deal of it, even now. ~SangerM http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26277 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26277 Mon, 06 Jun 2005 23:28:09 -0600 Every now and then, when I wonder if I should have chosen soldiering, I'll watch Schindler's List. Answers the question for me, every time. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26274 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26274 Mon, 06 Jun 2005 22:49:03 -0600 You know, Kat I really hated the ending of Ryan. It was out of place, and really set me off in a bad tone. 1) From the beginning, you are led to believe that this was being remembered by Hanks' character and then at the end you realize it was someone who could not have remembered all of that stuff--even that was too hard for my willing suspension of reality to overcome; 2) the ending was just too sappy "Am I a good man?" Give me a break. Bah. In fact, I am convinced the opening memory sequence and the ending were added after the fact to help set the stage, and to give people time to wipe their eyes and get composed before the lights came up. Frankly, I think the movie would have been loads better if Spielberg had just dropped the modern day bits. For my part, I skip those when I watch it. As for the rest, the D-Day landing sequence was more powerful than anything I have ever seen on a screen, save for Schindler's List. In fact, I saw Ryan twice in one day. The first time alone, to see if my wife would want to see it, and then with her, when she decided she had to because her father had been with the Marines in the Pacific and in Korea, and she wanted to at least once get some idea of what it might have been like for him. Suffice to say she did. We were supposed to go to dinner that evening, but she was too shook up to do that, so we just went home. It was more than three years before I would watch it again. I have never watched Schindler's List again. I don't think I ever will. ~SangerM http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26272 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26272 Mon, 06 Jun 2005 22:32:44 -0600 I watched Saving Private Ryan last night on 52" TV with surround sound. Everytime I see that movie, I get emotional. The hardest part, for me, was when the military car drove up to the Ryan house with it's four star flag in the window. It was too close to home these days. Made me think of the number of times that has happened over the years and more recently. That, and the last scene: Earn it. I always knew Hanks character and the ghosts of millions were speaking to me, to us, in that one sentence. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26245 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26245 Mon, 06 Jun 2005 18:28:00 -0600 And here's a comment on the French, now that John has assured me I wasn't snarking. By chance today, I was watching French TV and fell upon a programme on D-Day. I watched it till the end. It was good, informative, they had a bunch of veterans talking (some French, but many more Americans) and they made a point of talking about all the sacrifices made by the Allies. I would have been surprised except that for ever since I can remember (though I am not sure about these last few years as my American husband doesn't much like French TV - despite the above average amount of bare skin usually shown), the French have commemorated D-Day by showing documentaries or the Longest Day. My Dad always used to watch it and so did we. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26236 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26236 Mon, 06 Jun 2005 14:35:51 -0600 Midwifery in the 18th cent. is just so primitive. Where was John Edwards? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26232 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26232 Mon, 06 Jun 2005 13:34:32 -0600 Oh, yeah, Pegasus Bridge, how to do it right, rather than land several miles away and march through lots of badass enemy soldiers, as they did at Arnhem. (And they almost succeeded, dangit!) Owwhell, that Market-Garden thing depended on absolutely everything going absolutely right. Yuck. I must try and get my ex-neighbor on the phone tonight. He's a prissy old guy who jumped at Normandy, June 6th, 1944. He complained about the heaviness of the Thompson, but gave up his one and only morphine syrette to a guy he shot with it. A real Christian gentleman. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26230 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26230 Mon, 06 Jun 2005 12:44:30 -0600 One Fast Feline Saved - Copy Loud & Clear JTG http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26229 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26229 Mon, 06 Jun 2005 12:43:31 -0600 Umm, Boqui, save that kitten-bullet image for the next time we cat-bomb Acidman. Should be soon, he's been talking trash about kitties lately. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26228 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26228 Mon, 06 Jun 2005 12:32:28 -0600 We prefer the term, "Independent Contractors," John. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26227 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26227 Mon, 06 Jun 2005 12:16:00 -0600 Ha! Gunners were camp followers until c.1600 when attempts were first begun to legitimise them. Even today the effort has shown only partial success. Cheers JMH http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26226 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26226 Mon, 06 Jun 2005 12:11:54 -0600 Great photos. The expression on the faces of the men heading toward Juno Beach could fill the pages of a book. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26224 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26224 Mon, 06 Jun 2005 11:47:44 -0600 But seriously... I've read another plausible explanation on the phrase: SON OF A GUN. Back in the days when warships were manned by Iron Men in Sailing Ships, Women Folk were kept onboard for the very same reasons armies relied on camp followers to tend to domestic needs. (I know, very sexist - but this is the 18th Century). Anyways... When due to the congress between man & woman, the woman had trouble unburdening herself from child, the woman was bent over the barrel of a cannon, and a salvo was fired. The theory being, that the contusion and shock of the detonation would compel the child to propel thusly from its motherly womb. Thus, any recalcitrant and obdurate fellow, was affixed the moniker SON OF A GUN. It's difficult to discern the origins of saying like that, whose origins are obscured by history. Another example: THE WHOLE NINE YARDS. I have heard two origins which have been forsworn as the "true" reasons for this saying. The first one is prosaic. Construction crews, when laying-down the foundation for a large project, will require the full contents of a Cement Truck, whose capacity happens to be 9 Cubic Yards. Thus, you give it The Whole Nine Yards. The second one is more exiting. B-17 Gunners were given exactly 27 Feet of M2 Linked .50 Cal. Ammo for their missions. When the gunners encountered a particularly stubborn Messerschmidt, they emptied The Whole Nine Yards on it. Unless you are a Seabee, or in the construction business, most in this blog would prefer the other explanation. Take your pick. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26221 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26221 Mon, 06 Jun 2005 11:27:01 -0600 Great photos. The expression on the faces of the men heading toward Juno Beach could fill the pages of a book. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26217 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26217 Mon, 06 Jun 2005 10:37:02 -0600 THIS, was the meaning of that term. Or in this case Kitten of a Gun ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26215 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26215 Mon, 06 Jun 2005 10:30:35 -0600 Excellent post, John - great pictures! Can't wait to see Bill's pics from his travels... BTW - for history in the making here in WA state, I have some links on the court challenge. Ruling is due today... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26212 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26212 Mon, 06 Jun 2005 10:08:03 -0600 Hmmm. I don't think i'd walk those beaches without a metal detector. Cause' You never know... Nice photo's, thank you. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26211 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26211 Mon, 06 Jun 2005 10:04:07 -0600 Pure Envy, John, pure envy.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26210 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26210 Mon, 06 Jun 2005 10:00:19 -0600 Cricket As for "shamelessly stealing", remember that 'son of a gun' was not originally a compliment. Cheers JMH http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26209 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26209 Mon, 06 Jun 2005 09:47:28 -0600 Why am I not suprised that JMH knew the answer to your trivia question? I would imagine that Sanger knows it too. We'll see.... As for the rest- what a day in history! Great D-Day pix... thanks! http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26207 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26207 Mon, 06 Jun 2005 08:56:59 -0600 1. Arthur MacArthur 1864 Chattanooga(?) 2. Douglas MacArthur 1942 Philipines etc Cheers JMH http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26204 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26204 Mon, 06 Jun 2005 08:28:19 -0600 What is there to forgive? When it comes to paying homage and respects to those who have fallen in freedom's cause, I thank all our Allies who drove back Hitler's Hordes. May they all rest in peace and know that one more generation will be taught and the torch passed... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26203 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/06/quite_a_day_today.html#comment-26203 Mon, 06 Jun 2005 08:25:24 -0600