We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2010 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html Sat, 24 Mar 2012 16:02:26 Z Movable Type 4.12 en Copyright 2012 http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification If you're wondering what I think of the latest Air Force Academy food fight, the answer is, “Not much.” Look, everybody, what the “Reverend” Lynn is fulminating about has as much basis in reality as Jesse Jaahcksonnn's rage against the Toyota racist machine. It's a shakedown, pure and simple. The only difference is what the accuser wants--Jesse just wanted to set up a protection payment racket for his front company, the Rainbow Coalition. With Lynn it's hard to tell…nobody's followed the money yet. Anyway, having been a Cadet when Chapel was mandatory on Sunday (I also remember paying 25 cents... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html Sun, 08 May 2005 04:13:00 -0600 Well, we'll take in scruffy stray dogs, we took in JTG, eh? Moonbats and rude people can just keep moving... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24545 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24545 Thu, 12 May 2005 08:12:20 -0600 You know what I like best about this place? Smart people saying intelligent things (mostly, most of the time) in a reasonable and often i n formative way. Kind of like a good dinner conversation, as in "My Dinner With Andre" (a favorite of mine). Thanks all!! Well... all except the occasional moron who gets fooled into thinking he's found a nice new home. Kind of like that scruffy stray dog who decides the shack at the back of the county animal shelter is a good place to get out of the rain .... :-) http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24531 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24531 Wed, 11 May 2005 20:49:32 -0600 Thanks for the review. That shortens my much-too-lengthy books-to-read list by one. I'll let you know when I finish Collapse. Seen him give his spiel on C-Span about it. Probably more of the same cherry picking of outliers, but not sure yet(as it sits close to the bottom of the stack). http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24518 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24518 Wed, 11 May 2005 15:03:46 -0600 Jared Daimond? Blech. YOu can keep him Sanger. Thanks for the review. That shortens my much-too-lengthy books-to-read list by one. ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24502 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24502 Wed, 11 May 2005 11:44:31 -0600 Aw shucks. Tweren't nothing, Oh LTC my LTC. But if there is ANY group that is 'tolerant' of religion in the workplace, it is usually the military. As Sanger noted, you get jerks in every crowd and it is easily corrected. And by workplace, I mean no atheists in foxholes. I do not mean to disparage those who have BTDT, but I pray for ALL our service men and women and I don't care what their religious beliefs are. When 9-11 happened, we were not black, or white or any other color. We were not Catholic, Jew or Protestant, Wiccan, Islam or Druid. We were Americans. We all prayed for each other. I hope we still do. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24493 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24493 Wed, 11 May 2005 10:13:35 -0600 And... Cricket delivers a spanking! (Temporarily removes Castle Argghhh! sign and replaces with Castle Anthrax). *Lights Grail Beacon* http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24486 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24486 Wed, 11 May 2005 07:35:26 -0600 bu$hater, I do not kid about such things. Zell Miller is a Democrat who not only can tell the truth, but has no problem outing those who are naive and want to wear the rose colored glasses of peace and love, baby. I doubt very much he would insist on cadets attending chapel as much as he would urge them to stand for what is right. In the absence of religion you would have the state be the Spirit Guide. Zell Miller is a rare critter with a conscience and the intestinal fortitude and and courage to not be threatened by its free use, or to allow others the same right, and to quote a 19th century writer: "We claim the privelege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience and allow all men the same privelege, let them worship HOW, WHERE, or WHAT they may." The military recognizes Satan and Wiccan worship and meditation, as well as pagan beliefs. They also recognize conscientious objector status in their personnel. So, now after this well thought out well reasoned response, here is one more thought: Watch your mouth and present some facts to back up your rather childish assertions. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24482 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24482 Wed, 11 May 2005 03:39:52 -0600 The study of economics and the laws surrounding taxes is important. Whenever there is a law that is passed, someone benefits. Rarely is it the taxpayer. For instance, the silliness behind requiring cars to have an emissions test every year. It is a mandate, so who benefits? The fellow who bids on the contract and wins. The basement chemist who formulates the "Good to Pass" two cups of fuel additive for you to pass said test. Your mechanic if it isn't under warranty and the manufacturer if it is and you don't pass. That was one reason I bought my (used) Excursion. It is a gold beastie that I have named "The Precious." It's weight alone exempts it from the emissions requirements for this state. Heh. Watching a state legislature and their agendas as well as reading what bills will be up for votes can give someone virtual insider trading knowledge if they are poised to take advantage of it. Thus the entrepenuer is born via legislation. Then there is Bill Gates *hack koff* who reads company drivel and moves accordingly. His recent study of Google indicated to him that he had to make a move that would ensure his top dog status. Forgive me, as it is late and I am tired and being overly simplistic. But the model that Adam Smith uses is the one that I have read several times in college and in high school. It takes more than one person to make a pencil, unless you are Rockefeller and believe that competition is a sin. Now, what does this have to do with money? Everything. I didn't know that certain religious/ethnic groups had a monopoly on it's importance and impact. I love preparing tax returns. There. That is my nerdy secret. I have used Turbo Tax for years, but find that they are behind the curve when it comes to military legislation and their updates do not reflect this in a timely manner to either save paying more or to maximize a return. I did the books for a small family run business for five years. I loved every minute of it and enjoyed the challenge of balancing the books as well as figuring the month to day and year to day profits. I helped prepare the payroll, balanced the owner's business checkbook and wet nursed my husband through college accounting. I wanna be a tax lawyer when I grow up. I am a Christian and helk yes, money is very important to me and I want to see the taxpayers keep as much of it as possible. Gerry Spence is one of my idols. Justhisguy: Thank you for the kind words. My darling is way kewl and gets better every year. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24481 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24481 Wed, 11 May 2005 02:00:06 -0600 Just wrote a snarky (well, actually, nasty) message to "bu$hater" and had it bounce back immediately, something about a non-existent address. A shame, I think. I was right creatively rude to that fellow. Maybe he'd challenge me? And I could give him what Alex Hamilton got? Nahh. I don't think so. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24480 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24480 Wed, 11 May 2005 01:19:48 -0600 Dang, Cricket! Smith and Bastiat? Please introduce your hubby to us. He must be way kewl, to have hooked up with you! http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24479 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24479 Wed, 11 May 2005 01:02:34 -0600 Start of Original Comment Zell Miller for AFSEC??? You gotta be [deleted] [insert] joshing me. Why not UN Ambassador while you're about it? Him an John would [deleted] [insert] mess EVERYthing up. End of Original Comment (with edits) *PG-17C observes* Around here we do not use the "F" word in open fora w/o permission. We prefer to not see scatalogical references either, wishing instead for regulars and visitors alike to display more intellectual dignity in supporting their arguments. We reward cleverness, we erase pottymouth. We also appreciate when visitors use real email addresses (they can be masked by putting a bogus url in the block) as it indicates they are something other than drive-by poop-flingers... Lastly, we are confused why the poster chooses to portray their misogynistic and disrespectful attitude towards women? We here at Castle Argghhh like bushes, whether furry or not. We find the author's nick silly, and dismiss their arguments until such time as they can present them civilly. Heh. *PG-17C trundles away.*]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24478 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24478 Wed, 11 May 2005 00:25:37 -0600 Ry, possibly. As I wrote, I am working through it. Still a ways to go, and pretty sure I'll cast it as drivel when I'm done, but it is interesting, if only to get some fuel for the "what-ain't-true" categories... More when I've done... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24476 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24476 Tue, 10 May 2005 23:45:36 -0600 Jared Daimond? Blech. YOu can keep him Sanger. I have to agree with TN Dupuy who says that most historians don't use a representative enough sample in 'Numbers, Predictions and War', and Diamond is one of the worst IMHO. Besides, I think VD Hanson does enough in Carnage and Culture to make one think twice about some of Diamonds claims(particularly his primary--geography is why 'THe West' came out ahead.). http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24472 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24472 Tue, 10 May 2005 22:50:43 -0600 Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond. I am slogging through that; I don't like his writing style or a lot of his premises, but he does have some interesting notions. I think he overplays "native" intelligence, but you might find it interesting anyway, especially if you find Smith interesting. Enjoy the movies... ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24471 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24471 Tue, 10 May 2005 22:21:06 -0600 Sanger M, I wish I could say something suitably snarky but all I can add is Adam Smith and Frederic Bastiat have a place next to the family Bible. Heh. I remember a captain making an NCO do push ups for being a religious fanatic back in the mid eighties. I was surprised, because initially he gave him the push ups for shoving me out of the way as I was going into his office to have him sign some paperwork. The only religion I was taught was that no matter how I treated my fellow travelers on this planet, I did it to Christ. We were taught to love one another and do the hard right. Not an easy thing to do sometimes. Tonight is "McMovie Night." This is a bi monthly tradition where we get sick of me whining about cooking and go out to Micky Dee's and Blockbuster. We will meet the Fockers, watch Donald and Goofy in the three musketeers and then stand in awe of the Baby Geniuses with the McKids. Hope you have a good one. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24468 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24468 Tue, 10 May 2005 19:47:55 -0600 Ry, my point is that bias, religious pressure, and other kinds of unpleasant behavior exist in the military, just as they do everywhere, and that occasionally, a group of like-minded people may end up in the same place. Sometimes, one of them will even be stupid enough to express her opinions in public, as did the gal who insulted me. Usually, though, that person ends up paying for such stupidity, as she did. As for the institutions themselves, my experience has been that any kind of negative behavior aimed at race, gender, or some other "protected" status, e.g., religion, is quashed as soon as it is noted. I will add that it does take strong people to do the right things, and that politics is what it is, so life isn't always fair or just; but that said, I think the military does a far better job of keeping things above board and pressure-free than any civilian organization I've ever been part of. I would not be surprised if some cadets feel there was religious pressure of some kind, but I can't imagine more than one or two of them would keep quiet about that for longer than it took them to get to an e-mail client. Personally, I think more people would keep quite about rape than about perceived religious persecution, but the reasons are not something I want to get into. ~SangerM http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24455 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24455 Tue, 10 May 2005 08:35:17 -0600 I'm a little confused by Sanger's post. Sanger: is the mil institutionally neutral in your opinion then? It kinda sounds like your saying that there are chuckleheads, but not From On High sanctioned chuckleheads. But, I can see how it can be taken the other way(the chuckleheads are pretty high up and can hurt you if they want meaning institutional bias). Which way am I to take that(not looking to argue as I learned my lesson the last time!)? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24451 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24451 Mon, 09 May 2005 23:36:16 -0600 Doh! Sorry Dusty. All you guys look the same to me....... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24443 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24443 Mon, 09 May 2005 16:20:02 -0600 Just for the record: In 30 years (more or less) of working for and with the US Government, I have only been insulted for being a Jew one time. Unfortunately, that was about 3 years ago, by the civilian pay specialist at the AFB I worked at. I was not getting all the money that was owed me, and I told her I wanted it. I had previously mentioned to her that I am Jewish, so she felt comfortable, I suppose, saying that she understood why my money mattered to me, since "you all care a lot more about money than most other folks." It worked itself out, but she was serious, and I was told by other people that this attitude was a common one in that office... Factor that into your thinking in whatever way suits. On another note, in support of Dusty's claims that people would be up in arms, I am not so sure the Academy folks would be quite so resistant to pressure (considering how badly they want to be where they are, and how easy it is to make life miserable for people in an overt way); however, as I wrote to John once before, we had a situation in the Army where the unit Cdr ordered everyone in the unit to attend a prayer breakfast (religion was not the issue, but numbers of people in support of the unit-sponsored even were). Some of my folks did not want to go, and it got ugly. I ended up getting things straightened out, but I am convinced to this day that it affected my career, if only mildly. So, is there religious pressure and insults, and so on? Sure, I hear and experience it all the time (like every December when I have to work in the office "christmasville," but that's not an issue for me. I just tell people to bug off, and if they get overbearing, I get pretty ugly. As for institutional pressure, I can't say I've ever seen it, especially in the Service, where people tend to take the constitution pretty seriously. On that last, in fact, I expect criminal activity would be tolerated before violations of constitutional rights, if only because people tend to feel more strongly about the perceived "taking" of freedoms than about plain ol' common crime... Just positin' ~SangerM http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24442 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24442 Mon, 09 May 2005 16:00:08 -0600 Well, in my defense, *Dusty* linked to the Gazette, not me! http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24438 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24438 Mon, 09 May 2005 15:35:13 -0600 Here's #3.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24436 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24436 Mon, 09 May 2005 14:51:45 -0600 These are 17-24 year old people going through the stages of deciding what they really believe. Same kind of stuff occurs on non-mil academy campus'(ever seen the atheists go after the Gideons? Amazing.). It's part of growing up. Surviving cliques, surviving ideological differences, and getting along with those you don't agree with is part of the personal maturation process. Why does this change simply by being a mil academy I wonder? I wonder if the kids who are complaining are the ones who have political asperations adn only joined because it looks good? Ry http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24435 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24435 Mon, 09 May 2005 13:52:11 -0600 As a hairy knuckled mouth breathing red stater who is a constituent of the awesome Zell, I agree. Then we force 'em to convert to Reichwing Rethuglicanism or die. Geez. Like, do these people lie awake at night plotting this stuff? Where are the fire hoses? I could tell a tale or two about religious persecution in this country that would make this PALE in comparsion. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24434 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/05/oh_for_gods_sake.html#comment-24434 Mon, 09 May 2005 13:23:24 -0600