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  <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1/tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.3847-</id>
  <updated>2008-08-03T17:25:36Z</updated>
  <title>Comments for 617th MP Co AAR.</title>
  <subtitle>We&apos;re the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost.  All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT,  and KA 2003-2007</subtitle>
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    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.3847</id>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/03/617th_mp_co_aar.html" />
    <link rel="service.edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/cgi-bin/mt41/mt-atom.cgi/weblog/blog_id=1/entry_id=3847" title="617th MP Co AAR." />
    <published>2005-03-25T20:27:06Z</published>
    <updated>2006-11-11T16:52:57Z</updated>
    <title>617th MP Co AAR.</title>
    <summary>What a difference timing makes. Two posts down, in an update, I talk about the AAR (After Action Review) covering the fight of the 617th MP Company. I lament Blackfive got it published first. Hey, we *hate* being scooped! Like I said, Matt got it via different sources, and his didn&apos;t come with any markings or from sources that might give cause for pause... mine came in ways that I felt I had to get permission first. [update: From chattng with Matt, he got his copy from different sources, and vetted it from different sources] So, I asked the author...</summary>
    <author>
      <name>The Armorer</name>
      <uri>http://www.thedonovan.com</uri>
    </author>
    
    <category term="Global War on Terror (GWOT)" />
    
    <category term="Historical Stuff" />
    
    <category term="Observations on things Military" />
    
    <category term="This is no Sh*t!" />
    
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      <![CDATA[<p>What a difference timing makes.  Two posts down, <b><a href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/003845.html">in an update</a></b>, I talk about the AAR (After Action Review) covering the fight of the 617th MP Company.  I lament Blackfive got it published first.  Hey, we *hate* being scooped!</p>

<p>Like I said, Matt got it via different sources, and his didn't come with any markings or from sources that might give cause for pause...  mine came in ways that I felt I had to get permission first. [update: From chattng with Matt, he got his copy from different sources, and vetted it from different sources] So, I asked the author (via email) this morning.  I go to lunch, find out Matt has it posted...  come back from lunch, and there is my email from the guy who wrote it.  So, since I can include his email (there are some redactions at his request) I'm gonna run with the story anyway!  Yay!</p>

<p>Here is the email I got from the author:</p>

<blockquote>
John,

<p>No I do not mind if you publish the email.  </p>

<p>No attribution required.  </p>

<p>My purposes were threefold: </p>

<p>- a. [redacted-  But there is a good reason, and if that reason comes to pass, I'll share. ed.]</p>

<p>- b. to end the debate about women in combat—they are in combat, period.;  </p>

<p>- c. to add our two cents to this stupid debate about the Close Combat Badge the Army command is tossing around, for non-infantry combat arms only---no MPs.  </p>

<p>I edited it for OPSEC before it went out.  I only wish that the references to the name of the ASR hadn’t appeared on the news.</p>

<p>I did not put any names in there, because I didn’t want any legal trouble coming back to me for unauthorized disclosure of names.  I’d prefer names weren’t added, to avoid any questions about the source document.</p>

<p>Please share it, it was meant to share.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>In my intro to the pictures, I noted the performance of the soldiers - their professionalism and discipline.  And, I'm pleased to say, I was pushing just the points that the author of the AAR was hoping for - and I wrote that before I read the AAR.  From previous discussions, there are good and loyal readers of this blog who don't share my view of women in combat.  Leaving that aside, this fight certainly shows that at least in this kind of fight - properly trained, motivated, and led (not to mention doing the leading themselves) they can hold their own.  I will allow that the issue of women in the infantry is a different issue.  But the issue of women in combat... well, my position all along has been - if they are in the Army, then they can take their chances, too.  And I don't wanna hear any Regulars talking down the RC (Reserve Component) unless they are being specific about people and places.  Don't hand me any generic crap.  Talk to the hand.  And yes, I'm a Regular.</p>

<p>On to the AAR:<br />
<blockquote><br />
Everyone,</p>

<p>    Over the next few days you will see on the television news shows, and in the print news media the story of a Military Police Squad who are heroes.    Through those outlets, I doubt that their story will get out in a truly descriptive manner.    I can't express to you the pride, awe, and respect I feel for the soldiers of callsign Raven 42.    </p>

<p>    On Sunday afternoon, in a very bad section of scrub-land called Salman Pak, on the southeastern outskirts of Baghdad, 40 to 50 heavily-armed Iraqi insurgents attacked a convoy of 30 civilian tractor trailer trucks that were moving supplies for the coalition forces, along an Alternate Supply Route.    These tractor trailers, driven by third country nationals (primarily Turkish), were escorted by 3 armored Hummers from the COSCOM.    When the insurgents attacked, one of the Hummers was in their kill zone and the three soldiers aboard were immediately wounded, and the platform taken under heavy machinegun and RPG fire.    Along with them, three of the truck drivers were killed, 6 were wounded in the tractor trailer trucks.    The enemy attacked from a farmer's barren field next to the road, with a tree line perpendicular to the ASR, two dry irrigation ditches forming a rough L-shaped trenchline, and a house standing off the dirt road.    After three minutes of sustained fire, a squad of enemy moved forward toward the disabled and suppressed trucks.    Each of the enemy had hand-cuffs and were looking to take hostages for ransom or worse, to take those three wounded US soldiers for more internet beheadings.    </p>

<p>    About this time, three armored Hummers that formed the MP Squad under callsign Raven 42, 617th MP Co, Kentucky National Guard, assigned to the 503rd MP Bn, 18th MP Bde, arrived on the scene like the cavalry.    The squad had been shadowing the convoy from a distance behind the last vehicle, and when the convoy trucks stopped and became backed up from the initial attack, the squad sped up, paralleled the convoy up the shoulder of the road, and moved to the sound of gunfire.    They arrived on the scene just as a squad of about ten enemy had moved forward across the farmer's field and were about 20 meters from the road.    The MP squad opened fire with .50 cal machineguns and Mk19 grenade launchers and drove across the front of the enemy's kill zone, between the enemy and the trucks, drawing fire off of the tractor trailers.    The MP's crossed the kill zone and then turned up an access road at a right angle to the ASR and next to the field full of enemy fighters.    The three vehicles, carrying nine MPs and one medic, stopped in a line on the dirt access road and flanked the enemy positions with plunging fire from the .50 cal and the SAW machinegun (Squad Automatic Weapon).       In front of them, was a line of seven sedans, with all their doors and trunk lids open, the getaway cars and the lone two story house off on their left. </blockquote></p>

<p>Discipline, training, leadership.  Attacking into a "near" ambush is the correct response.  It's also hard, and takes great confidence in yourself, your buddies, your leaders, and your gear - especially, when by definition, an ambush is a surprise.  Reacting, and reacting correctly, is the purpose of training and drill - however sometimes repetetive it might seem.   </p>

<blockquote>
    Immediately the middle vehicle was hit by an RPG knocking the gunner unconscious from his turret and down into the vehicle.    The Vehicle Commander (the TC), the squad's leader, thought the gunner was dead, but tried to treat him from inside the vehicle.    Simultaneously, the rear vehicle's driver and TC, section leader two, open their doors and dismount to fight, while their gunner continued firing from his position in the gun platform on top of the Hummer.    Immediately, all three fall under heavy return machinegun fire, wounded.    The driver of the middle vehicle saw them fall out the rearview mirror, dismounts and sprints to get into the third vehicle and take up the SAW on top the vehicle.    The Squad's medic dismounts from that third vehicle, and joined by the first vehicle's driver (CLS trained) who sprinted back to join him, begins combat life-saving techniques to treat the three wounded MPs.    The gunner on the floor of the second vehicle is revived by his TC, the squad leader, and he climbs back into the .50 cal and opens fire.    The Squad leader dismounted with his M4 carbine, and 2 hand grenades, grabbed the section leader out of the first vehicle who had rendered radio reports of their first contact.    The two of them, squad leader Staff Sergeant and team leader Sergeant with her M4 and M203 grenade launcher, rush the nearest ditch about 20 meters away to start clearing the natural trenchline.    The enemy has gone into the ditches and is hiding behind several small trees in the back of the lot.    The .50 cal and SAW flanking fire tears apart the ten in the lead trenchline.
</blockquote>

<p>Recognize what you are seeing here.  The "good guys" are getting hit.  But cohesion remains.  People do their jobs.  They help each other - but never lose sight of the mission.  "Duty First, People Always" is a hackneyed phrase to many people...  but what do you think about it now?  The casualties they are taking could well have justifed a withdrawal.  But they didn't?  Why?  I can't answer definitively without interviewing the troops - but I'll offer these hypotheses.</p>

<p>1.  Body armor.  People are hit, and wounded, but not taken completely out of the fight.</p>

<p>2.  Combat lifesaving training.  People know how to treat the wounded, and do so.  That gives *everybody* confidence and a willingness to stick it out.  It also returns troops to the fight...  which isn't happening on the other side.  Though - it's not as universal as you'd think, as is mentioned at the end.  The bad guys are just getting ground down (their dead-to-wounded ratio supports that point) - and ground down by a smaller group than they are who just won't quit fighting... and the squads doing this fighting are *not* enjoying the traditional advantages of the defender.  At best, this is a meeting engagement.  At worst, it is an in-stride assault on a defended position by an inferior force.  It doesn't get any harder than that guys.</p>

<p>3.  Training.  From training comes confidence.  You'll see that mentioned later, too.</p>

<p>4.  Leadership.  Cool, and calm under fire.  Leadership that directs.  Controls.  Leads.  And we're not talking senior leaders.  We're talking Staff Sergeant and Sergeant.  The crucial link in any Army.</p>

<p>5.  Trust & Confidence.  Confidence that they can handle this fight - and turst that other people are busting their ass to get there and help out.  </p>

<p>6.  Discipline, discipline, discipline.  Those of you who were in the Army during long periods of no-combat peace - remember how people bitched about load plans, and uniformity?  Read on.</p>

<blockquote>
    Meanwhile, the two treating the three wounded on the ground at the rear vehicle come under sniper fire from the lone house.    Each of them, remember one is a medic, pull out AT-4 rocket launchers from the HMMWV and nearly-simultaneously fire the rockets into the house to neutralize the shooter.    The two sergeants work their way up the trenchline, throwing grenades, firing grenades from the launcher, and firing their M4s.    The sergeant runs low on ammo and runs back to a vehicle to reload.    She moves to her squad leader's vehicle, and because this squad is led so well, she knows exactly where to reach her arm blindly into a different vehicle to find ammo-because each vehicle is packed exactly the same, with discipline.    As she turns to move back to the trenchline, Gunner in two sees an AIF jump from behind one of the cars and start firing on the Sergeant.    He pulls his 9mm, because the .50 cal is pointed in the other direction, and shoots five rounds wounding him.    The sergeant moves back to the trenchline under fire from the back of the field, with fresh mags, two more grenades, and three more M203 rounds.    The Mk 19 gunner suppresses the rear of the field.    Now, rejoined with the squad leader, the two sergeants continue clearing the enemy from the trenchline, until they see no more movement.    A lone man with an RPG launcher on his shoulder steps from behind a tree and prepares to fire on the three Hummers and is killed with a single aimed SAW shot thru the head by the previously knocked out gunner on platform two, who now has a SAW out to supplement the .50 cal in the mount.    The team leader sergeant, she claims four killed by aimed M4 shots.    The Squad Leader, he threw four grenades taking out at least two baddies, and attributes one other to her aimed M203 fire.     

<p>    The gunner on platform two, previously knocked out from a hit by the RPG, has now swung his .50 cal around and, realizing that the line of vehicles represents a hazard and possible getaway for the bad guys, starts shooting the .50cal into the engine blocks until his field of fire is limited.    He realizes that his vehicle is still running despite the RPG hit, and drops down from his weapon, into the drivers seat and moves the vehicle forward on two flat tires about 100 meters into a better firing position.    Just then, the vehicle dies, oil spraying everywhere.    He remountes his .50 cal and continues shooting the remaining of the seven cars lined up and ready for a get-away that wasn't to happen.    The fire dies down about then, and a second squad arrives on the scene, dismounts and helps the two giving first aid to the wounded at platform three.    Two minutes later three other squads from the 617th arrive, along with the CO, and the field is secured, consolidation begins.<br />
</blockquote></p>

<p>That's just simply Audie Murphy stuff.  The soldier described here is the one in the first picture of my post below.  Wounded, stunned from the RPG blast - but still thinking not just of reaction and survival - but thinking ahead, past the immediate end game.  Taking away the ability of the enemy to escape.  Hoo-ah!  This is why the Armies of the western democracies are so lethal.  Not just the weapons - but the inherent flexibility of the soldiers.  US Sergeants have more authority and initiative than many Colonels in some second tier armies.  And it shows.</p>

<blockquote>
    Those seven Americans (with the three wounded) killed in total 24 heavily armed enemy, wounded 6 (two later died), and captured one unwounded, who feigned injury to escape the fight.    They seized 22 AK-47s, 6x RPG launchers w/ 16 rockets, 13x RPK machineguns, 3x PKM machineguns, 40 hand grenades, 123 fully loaded 30-rd AK magazines, 52 empty mags, and 10 belts of 2500 rds of PK ammo.

<p>    The three wounded MPs have been evacuated to Landstuhl.    One lost a kidney and will be paralyzed.    The other two will most likely recover, though one will forever have a bullet lodged between second and third ribs below his heart.    No word on the three COSCOM soldiers wounded in the initial volleys.</p>

<p>    Of the 7 members of Raven 42 who walked away, two are Caucasian Women, the rest men--one is Mexican-American, the medic is African-American, and the other two are Caucasian-the great American melting pot.    They believed even before this fight that their NCOs were the best in the Army, and that they have the best squad in the Army.    The Medic who fired the AT-4, said he remembered how from the week before when his squad leader forced him to train on it, though he didn't think as a medic he would ever use one.    He said he chose to use it in that moment to protect the three wounded on the ground in front of him, once they came under fire from the building.    The day before this mission, they took the new RFI bandoliers that were recently issued, and experimented with mounting them in their vehicles.    Once they figured out how, they pre-loaded a second basic load of ammo into magazines, put them into the bandoliers, and mounted them in their vehicles---the same exact way in every vehicle-load plans enforced and checked by leaders!    Leadership under fire--once those three leaders (NCOs) stepped out of their vehicles, the squad was committed to the fight.    </p>

<p>    Their only complaints in the AAR were: the lack of stopping power in the 9mm; the .50 cal incendiary rounds they are issued in lieu of ball ammo (shortage of ball in the inventory) didn't have the penetrating power needed to pierce the walls of the building;    and that everyone in the squad was not CLS [combat lifesaver. ed.] trained.    </p>

<p>    Yesterday, Monday, was spent with the chaplain and the chain of command conducting AARs.    Today, every news media in theater wanted them.    Good Morning America, NBC, CBS, FOX, ABC, Stars and Stripes, and many radio stations from Kentucky all were lined up today.    The female E5 Sergeant who fought thru the trenchline will become the anti-Jessica Lynch media poster child.    She and her squad leader deserve every bit of recognition they will get, and more.    They all do.    </p>

<p>    I participated in their AAR as the BDE S2, and am helping in putting together an action report to justify future valor awards.    Lets not talk about women in combat.    Lets not talk about the new Close Combat Badge not including MPs.<br />
</blockquote></p>

<p>Secretary Rumsfeld, sir.  Not enough .50 cal ball ammo?  Howinthehell does that happen?  Buy some from FN.  IMI.  Singapore Industries.  Hyundai.  It's not like it's not out there.  How are we four years into a war and still short small arms ammo?</p>

<p>I won't go into the 9mm.  I've hated the Beretta from day one - I'm just not rational on that one!</p>

<p><br />
Update: <b><a href="http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/006564.php">Winds of Change </a></b>has links to video via the Army, including interviews with the soldiers involved.</p>

<p>Matt at Blackfive also points us to this vid: From the <s><b><a href="http://www.dvidshub.net/video/jump.php?2099">Insurgents</a></b></s> Losers in this fight....</p>

<p><br />
</p>]]>
      
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  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.3847-comment:19407</id>
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    <title>Comment from Justthisguy on 2005-03-27</title>
    <author>
        <name>Justthisguy</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        Oh, Boqui, that reminds me of a story.

Read it in a motorcycle mag years ago. It was about the demise of BSA bikes.  It seems that the cylinders for the BSA twins were bored on machines which had been produced and bought to bore gun barrels in the First World War. Due to Britain&apos;s (lack of) industrial policy, those machine tools had never been repaired or replaced.  This caused no problems until, I think, about 1968, when the last old geezer machinist who knew how to allow for the wear in the old boring machine, retired. His replacement was some earnest young guy who actually believed that the index marks and graduations on the machine had some relation to what the machine was doing. As I recall, almost every BSA bike produced that year seized its pistons because the cylinders were wrongly bored.

    </content>
    <published>2005-03-28T04:05:50Z</published>
    <updated>2005-03-28T04:05:50Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.3847-comment:19390</id>
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    <title>Comment from David on 2005-03-27</title>
    <author>
        <name>David</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        Thanks for posting.  A great story, showing the greatness of our troops.  A big thank you to those involved, and many prayers.
    </content>
    <published>2005-03-27T21:31:37Z</published>
    <updated>2005-03-27T21:31:37Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.3847-comment:19320</id>
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    <title>Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2005-03-26</title>
    <author>
        <name>John of Argghhh!</name>
        <uri>http://www.thedonovan.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.thedonovan.com">
        <![CDATA[Laudividni - Ammo and Fuel convoys are the only convoys guaranteed helo support.  The others make do with UAVs or nothing.

Makes you wonder if we shouldn't start running "Q" convoys...

Then again, <a href="http://www.naval-history.net/WW1NavyBritishQships.htm" rel="nofollow"><b>maybe not</b></a>...]]>
    </content>
    <published>2005-03-26T15:38:11Z</published>
    <updated>2005-03-26T15:38:11Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.3847-comment:19317</id>
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    <title>Comment from Take2 on 2005-03-26</title>
    <author>
        <name>Take2</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        Interesting linked video shot by &quot;insurgents&quot;. To this old video news shooter, it appears that haji was more interested in saving his tail than getting footage. Evident panic and loss of mission focus produced completely useless video, but it is instructive of the lack of discipline within his ranks. Hope he continues to have the same problem with his sight picture. 

Well done to the troops for professionalism under fire and special kudos to those noncoms that made it happen! 


    </content>
    <published>2005-03-26T14:59:17Z</published>
    <updated>2005-03-26T14:59:17Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.3847-comment:19316</id>
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    <title>Comment from Boquisucio on 2005-03-26</title>
    <author>
        <name>Boquisucio</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        All the denizens of this castle, have made great observations &amp; comments on the unit level AAR.  Thus, I can&apos;t add anything else that&apos;s new and insightful.

On the ammo... Lake City is pumping out as many M33&apos;s as they can, and agree with John, that Rock Island should get off its duff, and start looking abroad for quality ammo.

Last year, IMI got a juicy IDIQ for M855&apos;s, when it partnered with American Ammunition.  This is just a first step in the right direction.

There is however a weak link in the logistics train, and its the Links.  With low pricing, the link market collapsed.  The last manufacturer standing was Valentec &amp; about four years ago, it folded its Costa Mesa, CA plant.  

ATK swooped down and purchased all its machinery and trucked it back to Lake City.  But here is the kicker: the presses are all ancient and require skilled pressmen to constantly eyeball their calibration and operation. This is a skill that is acquired over many years of on-the-job trial &amp; error.  That meant that for ATK to operate them, it needed VALENTEC&apos;s old pressmen to tend the machines.  All of these pressmen, were in their 50/60&apos;s and did not have a HighSchool Diploma (Old School). But because ATK&apos;s Anaul Retentive HR rules require that all of its employees have a HighSchool/GED Diploma, none could be hired - NO EXCEPTIONS.  European manufacturers have a similar situation.

As a result, the M27, M13 &amp; M9 production suffered greatly.  Worldwide, delivery for linked ammo, specially 7.62&apos;s are backordered for 18 months.

Oh, and on .40 Cal. The USCG just issued an IDIQ for this caliber; minimum quantities of 200,000 per year I believe.
    </content>
    <published>2005-03-26T14:40:05Z</published>
    <updated>2005-03-26T14:40:05Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.3847-comment:19315</id>
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    <title>Comment from Were-Kitten on 2005-03-26</title>
    <author>
        <name>Were-Kitten</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        Sanger-
AWESOME IDEA, DUDE!

John-
You&apos;ll be happy to know I read it here first, not at B5. :-)

I am so glad you posted this, along with the commentary.  I like your attitude about women in the military- if you&apos;re gonna join, you&apos;d better be prepared to put your butt on the line- and protect the butts of those around you.  Fantastic!!!  

High-Fives all around ladies!  Whoop!  Whoop!  Whoop!

I love the details about the vehicles being packed the same way, and the results from the AAR.  Really good stuff, John.  And they happen to be Kentucky kids- just a hop over the river from me.  The Kentucky kids lost one last weekend due to a roadside bomb, so they had more than just pride at stake.  A little revenge and a lot of training go a long way.

HOO-RAAH!
    </content>
    <published>2005-03-26T12:27:12Z</published>
    <updated>2005-03-26T12:27:12Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.3847-comment:19308</id>
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    <title>Comment from laudividni on 2005-03-26</title>
    <author>
        <name>laudividni</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        I thought convoys were supposed to have helicopter support. Sounds like they could have used some.
    </content>
    <published>2005-03-26T07:23:29Z</published>
    <updated>2005-03-26T07:23:29Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.3847-comment:19303</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.3847" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/03/617th_mp_co_aar.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/03/617th_mp_co_aar.html#comment-19303" />
    <title>Comment from SFC SKI on 2005-03-25</title>
    <author>
        <name>SFC SKI</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        THE CLS course is one of the best ideas the Army ever came up with.  I think it is better done at home station, not BCT, because then entire platoons our companies that are deploying get it all off the same sheet of music, and get to train up together.
    </content>
    <published>2005-03-26T04:01:54Z</published>
    <updated>2005-03-26T04:01:54Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.3847-comment:19299</id>
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    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/03/617th_mp_co_aar.html#comment-19299" />
    <title>Comment from Robin Burk on 2005-03-25</title>
    <author>
        <name>Robin Burk</name>
        <uri>http://windsofchange.net/</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://windsofchange.net/">
        BTW, re: the sidearms, I&apos;m hearing that the MPs will move to .40s shortly.   Not as good as the .45s, but easier to make the upgrade happen with a barrel switch.
    </content>
    <published>2005-03-26T03:07:55Z</published>
    <updated>2005-03-26T03:07:55Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.3847-comment:19298</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.3847" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/03/617th_mp_co_aar.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/03/617th_mp_co_aar.html#comment-19298" />
    <title>Comment from Robin Burk on 2005-03-25</title>
    <author>
        <name>Robin Burk</name>
        <uri>http://www.windsofchange.net/</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.windsofchange.net/">
        I&apos;ve tracked back to your great discussion John from my post over at Winds of Change.  Links to video there too.

RE: why this squad didn&apos;t withdraw, one of the MPs (the other woman) was asked in an interview about her reactions to the ambush and she mentioned that this was their 3rd.  The first two were back to back in January.  Sounds like the NCOs did a first-rate job of training thereafter (if not before).  They&apos;d been shot at before, survived, were trained, had planned the layout of equipment ... did it all right.

Turns out a colleague of mine, a female O-5 MP who was in some dicey situations in Bosnia, had seen the AAR earlier in the week but hadn&apos;t passed it on ... Thanks so much for making available to us all.

BTW, I will be circulating this AAR among my firstie cadets at the Point on Monday.  A lot of the guys have branched infantry but several of the gals are going MP, including the young woman I&apos;ve sponsored for several years.   They keep hearing about how important NCOs are in our Army, but events like this one can really build the gut-level respect for their soldiers and their NCOs that they ought to have.  We only have these cadets two more months before they&apos;re commissioned ... it won&apos;t be long before many of them will be in theater.

    </content>
    <published>2005-03-26T03:04:26Z</published>
    <updated>2005-03-26T03:04:26Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.3847-comment:19290</id>
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    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/03/617th_mp_co_aar.html#comment-19290" />
    <title>Comment from SangerM on 2005-03-25</title>
    <author>
        <name>SangerM</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[Oh yeah, instead of CDR Salamander's idea, I think we should take that female SGT's picture by the weapons and send it out to the Jihadi with the caption, "And you thought American <i>men</i> were hard on you; now you a$$holes are <i>really</i> in trouble!

:-)

]]>
    </content>
    <published>2005-03-26T00:34:50Z</published>
    <updated>2005-03-26T00:34:50Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.3847-comment:19289</id>
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    <title>Comment from Cricket on 2005-03-25</title>
    <author>
        <name>Cricket</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        Read it again for finer points...I am totally in awe.

    </content>
    <published>2005-03-26T00:26:58Z</published>
    <updated>2005-03-26T00:26:58Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.3847-comment:19288</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.3847" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/03/617th_mp_co_aar.html"/>
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    <title>Comment from Cricket on 2005-03-25</title>
    <author>
        <name>Cricket</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        Wow.  I will read it again for the finer points, but
aside from that, what struck me was the one you made about organization and discipline with regard to people knowing WHO the bad guys were, where they were and being able to reload effectively and efficiently.

That right there would be peace of mind and morale building for ANY NCO or commander.

Great story and good on the women.  They did well
and especially under fire.  Noises and explosions always get me.  
    </content>
    <published>2005-03-26T00:19:32Z</published>
    <updated>2005-03-26T00:19:32Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.3847-comment:19286</id>
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    <title>Comment from SangerM on 2005-03-25</title>
    <author>
        <name>SangerM</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        Tears to my eyes, tears to my eyes.  I stand in awe.......

As for women in combat, well, I&apos;m a Jew.  I&apos;ve believed that was acceptable and necessary for as long as I can remember, because Jews learned a long time ago that after the men are killed, the women die anyway--just not as quickly or pleasantly.

As for me, I didn&apos;t like being in mixed units--for reasons given before--but that was in MI units, in the cold war.  A different time, different people.

Wow.  Just wow.


    </content>
    <published>2005-03-26T00:12:36Z</published>
    <updated>2005-03-26T00:12:36Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.3847-comment:19285</id>
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    <title>Comment from Heartless Libertarian on 2005-03-25</title>
    <author>
        <name>Heartless Libertarian</name>
        <uri>http://heartlesslibertarian.blogspot.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://heartlesslibertarian.blogspot.com">
        Quibble on doctrinal terms:  from the description, this sounds like a far ambush, not a near, with the ambushers being outside hand grenade range.

We&apos;ve just been told at Ft Jackson that we&apos;ll soon be getting M-2s, along with M-240Bs and Mk-19s, for basic training.  Wonder if some of that .50 BMG ball shortfall is in ASPs at basic training posts.

A final random note:  last year, when TRADOC was considering various COAs for upgrading BCT for the COE (glossary: COA=Course of Action; BCT=Basic Combat Training; COE=Contemporary Operating Environment) one option included putting every soldier through the 40 hour CLS course.  I think that option meant extending BCT out to 11 weeks from the current 9.  Army doesn&apos;t have the resources-both personnel and facilities-to support that COA.
    </content>
    <published>2005-03-25T23:51:43Z</published>
    <updated>2005-03-25T23:51:43Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.3847-comment:19284</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.3847" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/03/617th_mp_co_aar.html"/>
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    <title>Comment from Scott D on 2005-03-25</title>
    <author>
        <name>Scott D</name>
        <uri>http://www.scottsrightwing.blogspot.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.scottsrightwing.blogspot.com">
        As a current soldier here in the Bluegrass State, I&apos;m really proud of our National Guardsmen--AND WOMEN--in the execution of their duty this week.  I hate to just say &quot;I agree&quot;, but as pointed out, their are women in combat, and with the CCB coming down the pipeline, MP&apos;s must be included.  I&apos;m an 11B, but I know as well as everyone else, that its the MP&apos;s out there on convoy duty that are seeing more than their fair share of IED&apos;s and ambushes.  Lets see to it they&apos;re recognized.

And I think the CDR should be our new PSYOPS Officer.  Too funny.
    </content>
    <published>2005-03-25T23:45:42Z</published>
    <updated>2005-03-25T23:45:42Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.3847-comment:19283</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.3847" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/03/617th_mp_co_aar.html"/>
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    <title>Comment from Scott D on 2005-03-25</title>
    <author>
        <name>Scott D</name>
        <uri>http://www.scottsrightwing.blogspot.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.scottsrightwing.blogspot.com">
        As a current soldier here in the Bluegrass State, I&apos;m really proud of our National Guardsmen--AND WOMEN--in the execution of their duty this week.  I hate to just say &quot;I agree&quot;, but as pointed out, their are women in combat, and with the CCB coming down the pipeline, MP&apos;s must be included.  I&apos;m an 11B, but I know as well as everyone else, that its the MP&apos;s out there on convoy duty that are seeing more than their fair share of IED&apos;s and ambushes.  Lets see to it they&apos;re recognized.

And I think the CDR should be our new PSYOPS Officer.  Too funny.
    </content>
    <published>2005-03-25T23:45:05Z</published>
    <updated>2005-03-25T23:45:05Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.3847-comment:19282</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.3847" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/03/617th_mp_co_aar.html"/>
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    <title>Comment from CDR Salamander on 2005-03-25</title>
    <author>
        <name>CDR Salamander</name>
        <uri>http://cdrsalamander.blogspot.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://cdrsalamander.blogspot.com">
        Outstanding report.  While the Navy thinks about the LCS.........

Hey, here is a PSYOPS idea.  Get a picture of that female SGT&apos;s high school picture and send it out to the Jihadi saying something to the effect &quot;This infidel woman just killed a few dozen of your comrads in direct combat.  Leave your weapons and go home.  Her brother is bigger and better trained.....&quot;

The Western way of War.  VDH will be very proud.
    </content>
    <published>2005-03-25T23:12:56Z</published>
    <updated>2005-03-25T23:12:56Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2005://1.3847-comment:19280</id>
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    <title>Comment from LUCIUS SEVERUS PERTINAX on 2005-03-25</title>
    <author>
        <name>LUCIUS SEVERUS PERTINAX</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        No armed mob can stand before trained warriors- that is a given. We now have an Army that is fully on the par, in terms of small unit cohesion and flexibility with the WWII German Wehrmacht in it&apos;s prime.. maybe even better.

9mm No! 10mm auto , Si!

yes, I know all about the bitching about load uniformity,(SFC Castaldo was absolute DEATH on that ;-)) I did some of the bitching myself,in the mid-70&apos;s , my first year in the Army. But fortunatly, all of our middle and senior NCO&apos;s were Vietnam combat vets and so I learned wisdom I fortuiously did not have to bleed for.
    </content>
    <published>2005-03-25T22:44:26Z</published>
    <updated>2005-03-25T22:44:26Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
</feed>

