We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2010 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/02/bout_time.html Sat, 24 Mar 2012 16:04:14 Z Movable Type 4.12 en Copyright 2012 http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification Someone finally listened to Chris and I. Yes, I'm sure it was us. Yep. Well, us and about a gazillion others. But hey... I guess it has yet to be designed by the Institute of Heraldry - and it's a badge, not a medal - but that level of accuracy is a lot to expect of the New York Times headline writer. The author got it right. New York Times February 13, 2005 Army Creates Medal For Troops Who Come Under Fire By Thom Shanker WASHINGTON, Feb. 12 - Army troops assigned to combat units that come under fire will... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/02/bout_time.html http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/02/bout_time.html Mon, 14 Feb 2005 05:05:44 -0600 Yep, an additional star on the CAR for each "campeign" (Desert Shield/Storm vets got two). http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/02/bout_time.html#comment-14710 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/02/bout_time.html#comment-14710 Tue, 15 Feb 2005 10:34:55 -0600 Well said Sgt. If you earned it wear it proudly! I too was trying to figure it all out. I finally broke down and looked at the ribbon pages for the other branches and came to the conclusion that there are simply a whole bunch of ribbons goin' on out there! Man! I wonder if it takes the other branches four hundred years to award their medals like the Corps. Da Grunt just received two that he qualified for two years ago. But then he doesn't give a rat's petunia about all that stuff anyhoo. But it's nice for his Old Man and Lovely Mom to dote on. He is proud as hell of his CAR though. BTW Sgt, do you receive stars on a CAR for multiple combat tours like you do your Sea Service for multiple deployments? The V is only for personal awards but I was curious as where a star or oak leaf could apply nowadays. The two new Global War on Terrorism medals are pretty cool. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/02/bout_time.html#comment-14671 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/02/bout_time.html#comment-14671 Mon, 14 Feb 2005 18:10:36 -0600 Pleas forgive this ol' Jarhead, but it seems like the whole system is waaay too complicated... But, then again, I'm guessing that the Marine Corps is still small enough to sidestep most of these issues. Overall, I'll not speak against ANY decoration earned while in combat... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/02/bout_time.html#comment-14667 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/02/bout_time.html#comment-14667 Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:27:57 -0600 The Army has the "combat patch" on the right shoulder, which indicates that the person wearing it served OVERSEAS (one wonders what we'll do when Canada invades) in a combat zone. Not that one has seen combat. The Infantry and Medics have the Combat Infantryman Badge and the Combat Medic Badge, which indicate service (requirements have varied over time) of 30 days continuous service in a combat zone, a Purple Heart, or (as in the case of most of our little wars of late that lasted less than 30 days) an amount of time specified by the Secretary of the Army. And, as the Strategy Page link discusses, for almost all our wars up to post-fall-of-Baghdad Iraq, it is the Infantry that has borne the brunt of combat and the casualties. And, given the special place that medic's hold in everyone's heart, they too got a badge. But you had to hold an infantry MOS AND be in combat units at BDE or lower - Division HQ weenies wouldn't count - which is why you can see Infantrymen with combat patches but no CIB. This does lead a to some inequities - such as a non-infantryment like Forward Observers or Scouts or Signallers serving with infantry units not being eligible - even though they were in the same fights. The logic there being those guys day-t0-day mission didn't require them to close with and destroy the enemy. You can argue that all you want, but that's how it was, and nobody minded it all that much. Then comes OIF phase II. Where a Division Artillery is designated as a Brigade Combat Team and employed, day-to-day, as infantry... conducting patrols, clearing buildings, fighting off ambushes, conducting raids - in other words, being infantry, infantry with a requirement to occasionally shoot their cannons to maintain some proficiency. So, artillerymen, acting as infantry, for months at a time, fighting in the same fights as the infantry - required to close with and destroy the enemy, didn't qualify for anything, even if they got wounded... while the grunt who never got touched wears his CIB proudly. As he should. The new badge simply recognizes that the nature of how we are fighting war has changed. The thing Rumsfeld talked about - you go to war with the Army you have. And the one we have didn't have enough infantry in it. We can talk about too many badges, ribbons, etc, and I'll be on your side. I think the Army Service Ribbon, essentially awarded and worn for life simply because you made it through basic, is an abomination - especially for officers. I think the NCOPD ribbon is silly. And there are others. But that's just me, grumping about how the Army decided to ape the Air Force, thinking that giving out bits of ribbon would make people enlist - completely misunderstanding what Napoleon meant when he said, "Men will die for a little bit of ribbon." But that's a rant for another time and place. I do think this badge is justified. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/02/bout_time.html#comment-14660 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/02/bout_time.html#comment-14660 Mon, 14 Feb 2005 16:43:40 -0600 I want to make it clear that I am NOT disparaging the valor and tenacity of our Army warfighters, and any questions I ask are coming from a USMC Grunt... In the Corps, we have the Combat Action Ribbon. It indicates that the wearer has seen the elephant, close up and personal, with no regard to the Marine's PMOS. Does the Army not have the same thing? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/02/bout_time.html#comment-14655 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/02/bout_time.html#comment-14655 Mon, 14 Feb 2005 15:56:15 -0600 JHD - It's only bigger'n mine if he can take it home without going to jail. And I *still* have more variety, regardless! http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/02/bout_time.html#comment-14637 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/02/bout_time.html#comment-14637 Mon, 14 Feb 2005 10:33:38 -0600 As a CIB holder, I am pleased with the new badge. Welcome, brethren [and sisteren?] of battle. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/02/bout_time.html#comment-14636 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/02/bout_time.html#comment-14636 Mon, 14 Feb 2005 10:00:53 -0600 Hey Armoryhead, I read the strategy page story but I musta' missed something. How unusual! ;-) BTW, did I tell you Da Grunt landed a cushy little job in Armory while they are back? And when they aren't in the field training newbies. Bet his armory is biggern' yours! :-o Something I found interesting that I didn't know. Marines can be awarded the Army Commendation Medal aside from the Joint Service Commendation or Achievement medals. Green with five white stripes center and white tips. I saw one in the fruit salad of a Jarhead the other day. Takes a real Marine to wear a Doggie ribbon! LOL! http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/02/bout_time.html#comment-14632 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/02/bout_time.html#comment-14632 Mon, 14 Feb 2005 09:26:17 -0600 Zoomie-Sib - the best answer to your question is found in the link to Strategy Page. As for people annoyed about Purple Hearts for the Pentagon casualties - eff 'em. They met the criteria. The rules in that regard got changed when the soldiers were injured in the Berlin Cafe' bombing. An attack is an attack. It's not like the aircraft hit the building because it was suffering a maintenance failure. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/02/bout_time.html#comment-14631 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/02/bout_time.html#comment-14631 Mon, 14 Feb 2005 08:59:36 -0600 Understood Chris. The key phrase is "under fire". Allot happens that may not even be in theater. I talked to a guy that was incensed that the folks at the Pentagon were awarded PHs when the asshats flew a plane into them. It's touchy I guess! http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/02/bout_time.html#comment-14628 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/02/bout_time.html#comment-14628 Mon, 14 Feb 2005 08:15:03 -0600 It shouldn't matter if your injury (or death) wasn't a result of direct enemy combat. If you are injured or killed as a result of being deployed to a war zone, you deserve your Purple Heart and death/disability bene's. Period. How is the new badge different from a CIB? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/02/bout_time.html#comment-14627 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/02/bout_time.html#comment-14627 Mon, 14 Feb 2005 08:14:37 -0600 JHD, Uniformed service members are eligible for the Purple Heart if their injury is indirectly the result of enemy action, e.g., crashing into a canal in a Humvee while under fire. Its a tough cut though and a lot is up to the hospital commander. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/02/bout_time.html#comment-14626 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/02/bout_time.html#comment-14626 Mon, 14 Feb 2005 08:09:16 -0600 Now if they'll only come up with an award for those injuried while not under fire. I'm sure a guy that has had his pelvis crushed by an Abrahms while deployed and doesn't qualify for a Purple Heart would appreciate it! Or the ones that got hurt when their HMMWVV ran into a canal. Or that Dogface or Grunt that gets maimed in a training exercise. Ecteras! Just seems like there ought o be something awarded to our men and women that sacrificed even if they didn't come under fire! Last time I brought this up someone said we could call it the "Bleeding Heart" medal. I just don't see it that way! I don't see anywhere that an award of this nature would lesson the value of a Purple Heart which would still remain an absolutely righteous award. :-( JMHO! http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/02/bout_time.html#comment-14623 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/02/bout_time.html#comment-14623 Mon, 14 Feb 2005 08:00:34 -0600