We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2007 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/01/what_is_it.html Sun, 03 Aug 2008 17:30:18 Z Movable Type 4.12 en Copyright 2008 http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification This ain't a contest. I've been asked to help ID this bullet, and I haven't a clue, nor a reference that mentions anything remotely like it. Anybody out there got some idea of what it is? Another shot here. From the email asking for help: So now that I have the bullet in my hands I can tell you a few more things about it. The rear of the bullet is not solid copper like Tom told me. The "wires" are also not steel like he thought. They are not lead nor aluminum, they appear to be a stiff alloy... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/01/what_is_it.html http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/01/what_is_it.html Fri, 07 Jan 2005 07:30:09 -0600 It's a .308/7/4 or a .223/12/31 caliber. This is what happens to a round fired at random into the air upon striking a magnesium laden firework by some IDIOT on the 4th of July (7/4) or New Years Eve (12/31). All kidding aside, I have no clue as to what kind of round it is. Yer pal BULLSEYE. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/01/what_is_it.html#comment-11379 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/01/what_is_it.html#comment-11379 Sat, 08 Jan 2005 18:21:50 -0600 Flip sweet John! Thanks http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/01/what_is_it.html#comment-11256 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/01/what_is_it.html#comment-11256 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 16:10:25 -0600 http://sheepdog.blog-city.com/read/995259.htm ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/01/what_is_it.html#comment-11255 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/01/what_is_it.html#comment-11255 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 15:49:06 -0600 good... ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/01/what_is_it.html#comment-11253 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/01/what_is_it.html#comment-11253 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 15:28:47 -0600 DrMark is right. It's a BallistiClean bullet, or a derivative thereof. Ow. That thing has GOT to leave a bruise, although I suspect the one in the pic was fired into hard media -- the "spokes" will slow penetration, big time. In soft media (eg. flesh), the expansion probably isn't that radical. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/01/what_is_it.html#comment-11247 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/01/what_is_it.html#comment-11247 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 13:42:55 -0600 .35 cal is very close to .357 and/or 9mm (its about 8.9mm). Is it possible this could be an attempt for an 9mm winmag or .357 mag improved manstopper? Do we know if the tip was elongated or if the wires were curled up so that it would fit in a standard pistol cartridge? IMHO the "fingers" being wrapped around the core like they are poionts in this direction. The base looks a little long for a pistol cartridge, but anything is possible. Were was it found? I know I am asking more than I am answering, but that kind of information might be handy in identifying the ammunition. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/01/what_is_it.html#comment-11245 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/01/what_is_it.html#comment-11245 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 13:25:45 -0600 I have seen a bullet that looked just like this on what I remember to be a discovery channel documentary, though I may be wrong. The "wires" were tungsten formed in a spiral over a penetrator core,swaged into a spire pointed hollowpint with a very thin jacket over them. It was designed to produce damage similar to a prefragmented bullet, without breaking up. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/01/what_is_it.html#comment-11244 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/01/what_is_it.html#comment-11244 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 13:14:32 -0600 http://www.miragetechnologies.net/Federal%20Ammunition.htm "BallistiClean is available in our jacketed, stranded zinc core bullet- designed to break up on hard targets-and in our Close Quarter Training (CQT) round. " ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/01/what_is_it.html#comment-11243 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/01/what_is_it.html#comment-11243 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 13:12:12 -0600 Interesting. There are rounds in current use that have a similar design to this one, but a different composition. I'm thinking in particular of a round that SWAT snipers/long-riflemen use, consisting of a jacketed projectile with a tightly-compressed stranded lead core. The round is designed specifically for situations where single-shot-to-the-head instant incapacitation is required. As the bullet penetrates the inner table of the skull, it sheds the jacket and fragments violently, with virtually no penetration out the other side. Judging by the stated composition of the bullet you describe, I'd guess it to be a more-penetrative implemention of the same concept, perhaps with an eye toward game larger than man? Surely someone here can provide additional illumination. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/01/what_is_it.html#comment-11239 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/01/what_is_it.html#comment-11239 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 12:46:15 -0600 I don't know what is, John, but I know what I'd name it: "The Human Rototiller." Argghhh! That's nasty! I've posted a link to your post at A.C.E. If anybody who visit there knows, Daniel E. Waters, a very knowledgeable firearms historian who visits there (and maybe here as well) will know. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/01/what_is_it.html#comment-11237 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/01/what_is_it.html#comment-11237 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 12:39:09 -0600 I seem to recall some tests made using bullets which incorporated bound tungsten strips (are any of the strands tungsten, perhaps?), but I'm completely at a loss as to the purpose of the tests. What puzzles me is the caliber. Every test I've ever seen on something like this has involved using bullets of a "military"-style caliber: .223, .30, 7.62mm etc -- but NEVER a .35-cal bullet. I'm going to post a link to this on my Forum; those geeks are going to go nuts about this one. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/01/what_is_it.html#comment-11236 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/01/what_is_it.html#comment-11236 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 12:08:20 -0600 And just for grins, here's a new use for bullets... www.bullworks.net/virtual/armory/bullets.htm http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/01/what_is_it.html#comment-11221 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/01/what_is_it.html#comment-11221 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 10:04:46 -0600 No pic available, but could it be a "Ballisticlean" Training Round??? See links: www.le.atk.com/Interior.asp?section=1&page=pages/federal/fed_rifle_ballisticlean.asp www.le.atk.com/Interior.asp?section=1&page=pages/federal/fed_pistol_ballisticlean.asp http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/01/what_is_it.html#comment-11220 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/01/what_is_it.html#comment-11220 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 10:03:04 -0600 I am stumped right now, but seem to recall some tests being done years ago on different types of cores for bullets that included strands, strands and solid cores, etc. Some of these were done to support hydrostatic shock, some for a better mushroom, some for penetration, and so forth. Let me see if I can find anything in the files... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/01/what_is_it.html#comment-11218 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2005/01/what_is_it.html#comment-11218 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 08:35:42 -0600