We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2010 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/re_how_fast_can_you_fly_backward_or_why_helicopter_pilots_are_superior.html Sat, 24 Mar 2012 16:05:36 Z Movable Type 4.12 en Copyright 2012 http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification *Sigh* …another example of aviation penis envy. Whenever someone starts slamming others, especially other pilots about their jets, look out. To paraphrase Shreck, sounds like he’s trying to compensate for something. Anyway…I like helicopters. I think they’re kinda cool and would love trying to fly one. But, in the end, I like the idea of carrying enough killing power to equal a modern-day American artillery unit. Me. Alone. By myself. As far as “operating by the numbers” is concerned, the fixed wing community does that because it must. To not do so puts you and the people around and underneath... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/re_how_fast_can_you_fly_backward_or_why_helicopter_pilots_are_superior.html http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/re_how_fast_can_you_fly_backward_or_why_helicopter_pilots_are_superior.html Mon, 06 Dec 2004 16:34:53 -0600 High Flight, but only us helo types have Anonymous's Low Flight: Oh, I have barely slipped the muddy clutch of Earth And thrashed the skies on dusty, untracked rotor blades; Earthward I've auto'ed, and joined the tumbling mirth Of moths and bees--and done a thousand things That would scare the s**t out of you--skidded and drooped and flared At weed-level. Hov’ring there, I've chased the frantic armadillo, and lost The race to insignificant headwinds. Forward, and a little up, taunting LTE I've topped the General's hedge with drooping turns Where never Eagle, or even Warthog flew. And, shaking with low-frequency vibration, I've lumbered The low uncontrolled airspace below Victor Airways, Put out my hand and searched for FOD. ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/re_how_fast_can_you_fly_backward_or_why_helicopter_pilots_are_superior.html#comment-10253 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/re_how_fast_can_you_fly_backward_or_why_helicopter_pilots_are_superior.html#comment-10253 Thu, 09 Dec 2004 10:13:20 -0600 that out of your system, don't ever do it again with me on board...Sir." ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/re_how_fast_can_you_fly_backward_or_why_helicopter_pilots_are_superior.html#comment-10251 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/re_how_fast_can_you_fly_backward_or_why_helicopter_pilots_are_superior.html#comment-10251 Thu, 09 Dec 2004 09:22:38 -0600 I seem to recall that the USMC CH-53Es (Echos) have done loops, too. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/re_how_fast_can_you_fly_backward_or_why_helicopter_pilots_are_superior.html#comment-10237 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/re_how_fast_can_you_fly_backward_or_why_helicopter_pilots_are_superior.html#comment-10237 Wed, 08 Dec 2004 15:52:58 -0600 Although I have a fixed wing background (F-4 Phantom) I did software development for the AH64D Apache Longbow for about 6 years. A couple of years ago, Boeing held a 25th year anniversary celebration for the Apache, and as part of the festivities, they had a demonstration flight of one of our Longbows that included a loop. No shit. The Apache has enough power to maintain a constant positive g thoughout the maneuver, and can fly a loop. I imagine if you go to the Boeing web page, they may still have some video posted of the event. It was pretty impressive. Eye watering, in fact. Sustained inverted flight...nah, not even the Apache can hack that one. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/re_how_fast_can_you_fly_backward_or_why_helicopter_pilots_are_superior.html#comment-10204 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/re_how_fast_can_you_fly_backward_or_why_helicopter_pilots_are_superior.html#comment-10204 Wed, 08 Dec 2004 13:54:35 -0600 real Loaches, but the vagueries of MoD procurement procedures are beyond the ken of us mere mortals, eh? ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/re_how_fast_can_you_fly_backward_or_why_helicopter_pilots_are_superior.html#comment-10198 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/re_how_fast_can_you_fly_backward_or_why_helicopter_pilots_are_superior.html#comment-10198 Wed, 08 Dec 2004 09:19:09 -0600 CW4BillT: We didn't have the -6, so the Kiowa had to be "LOACH". Cheers JMH http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/re_how_fast_can_you_fly_backward_or_why_helicopter_pilots_are_superior.html#comment-10140 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/re_how_fast_can_you_fly_backward_or_why_helicopter_pilots_are_superior.html#comment-10140 Tue, 07 Dec 2004 21:44:57 -0600 I liked what one of the pilots I flew with regulary did. We were flying with a couple of F-15 jocks off our wing, one of which decided to practice a few B.F.M's. He then comments across the radio "I'd like to see you guys do that!" My pilot calmly replied "Sorry dude...missed it...I was getting my steak out of the oven." The radio went strangely silent. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/re_how_fast_can_you_fly_backward_or_why_helicopter_pilots_are_superior.html#comment-10138 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/re_how_fast_can_you_fly_backward_or_why_helicopter_pilots_are_superior.html#comment-10138 Tue, 07 Dec 2004 19:07:25 -0600 Dusty: The "clown loach" of the Silver Eagles--long-since disbanded by the Army because "fuel costs were becoming prohibitive"--used to finish each airshow by looping his OH-6 (fully-articulated, but it's just easier doing it rigid-rotor). Pretty much any helicopter will do a decent Split-S if you keep it in trim, but you haven't really lived until you've done a Hammerhead to zero airspeed with a pedal-turn at the top (aka "return-to-target") in a Cobra. Not recommended if the bad guys have large-caliber stuff, though. JMH: The term "Loach" is generally acknowledged to refer to the OH-6, rather than the Kiowa (the "OH-Five-point-Eight"--because it's not quite as good as a "Six"). I know of two pilots who looped OH-58Ds and survived, but sustained inverted flight in helicopters in incondusive to longevity... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/re_how_fast_can_you_fly_backward_or_why_helicopter_pilots_are_superior.html#comment-10128 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/re_how_fast_can_you_fly_backward_or_why_helicopter_pilots_are_superior.html#comment-10128 Tue, 07 Dec 2004 13:24:38 -0600 I heard of a LOACH pilot with 408 Squadron (in the late 70's) who looped a Kiowa ... Cheers JMH http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/re_how_fast_can_you_fly_backward_or_why_helicopter_pilots_are_superior.html#comment-10067 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/re_how_fast_can_you_fly_backward_or_why_helicopter_pilots_are_superior.html#comment-10067 Mon, 06 Dec 2004 22:50:15 -0600 Must...control...Fist...of...Death... I do rant, don't I? Heh. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/re_how_fast_can_you_fly_backward_or_why_helicopter_pilots_are_superior.html#comment-10066 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/re_how_fast_can_you_fly_backward_or_why_helicopter_pilots_are_superior.html#comment-10066 Mon, 06 Dec 2004 22:22:41 -0600 Magnificent rant, there. Not just androgens but ethanol too. (Takes one to know one.) http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/re_how_fast_can_you_fly_backward_or_why_helicopter_pilots_are_superior.html#comment-10065 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/re_how_fast_can_you_fly_backward_or_why_helicopter_pilots_are_superior.html#comment-10065 Mon, 06 Dec 2004 22:18:36 -0600 Loops are bad for helos...unless they have a rigid rotor system. And even then it's tricky 'cause of blade flex and all the other magic stuff associated with flying those buggers. Frankly, it's not an option for any of the other models...which is why we stay at your high six. That said, Hogs fighting helos can be like inexperienced Viper guys (or, better yet, Eagle guys...heh) fighting Hogs. If you come down low with a slow mover, he'll whack you, expecially if he has AIM-9s or an equivalent. So...he may be slow but, like a badger, he can bite hard if you give him the opportunity. You can get 'im, but you gotta respect 'im. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/re_how_fast_can_you_fly_backward_or_why_helicopter_pilots_are_superior.html#comment-10064 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/re_how_fast_can_you_fly_backward_or_why_helicopter_pilots_are_superior.html#comment-10064 Mon, 06 Dec 2004 21:41:49 -0600 As one of them mean sumbitches, I'll keep to myself what I thought as you guys went back to your tents and cots and I disappeared into the underbrush... Of course, the point man thought I had it cushy, too! Oh, yeah - and I don't know about loops, but I've been barrel-rolled in a Blackhawk. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/re_how_fast_can_you_fly_backward_or_why_helicopter_pilots_are_superior.html#comment-10061 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/re_how_fast_can_you_fly_backward_or_why_helicopter_pilots_are_superior.html#comment-10061 Mon, 06 Dec 2004 21:07:04 -0600 As a 17 year rotor head I'm with John on this one, flying down a valley masking behind trees and suddenly doing a peddle turn sliding sideways into an LZ to drop off some 30 mean sum bitches armed to the teeth is a pretty good rush. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/re_how_fast_can_you_fly_backward_or_why_helicopter_pilots_are_superior.html#comment-10059 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/re_how_fast_can_you_fly_backward_or_why_helicopter_pilots_are_superior.html#comment-10059 Mon, 06 Dec 2004 20:48:55 -0600 I thought that might bring you out of hiding! That was a pretty tightly controlled, how did you say that? Oh, yeah - "F**k-S**t-Hate Debrief"... as you would give to a child too young to know better. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/re_how_fast_can_you_fly_backward_or_why_helicopter_pilots_are_superior.html#comment-10058 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/re_how_fast_can_you_fly_backward_or_why_helicopter_pilots_are_superior.html#comment-10058 Mon, 06 Dec 2004 20:13:53 -0600