We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2010 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/basic_marksmanship_training.html Sat, 24 Mar 2012 16:05:20 Z Movable Type 4.12 en Copyright 2012 http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification All I can say is... about time, and still not enough. Spc. Eliamar Casta–Staff Sgt. Carlos Osorio, drill sergeant with D Company, 1st Battalion, 38th Infantry Regiment, center, checks the sights of Pvt. Michael Cooper's weapon before he qualified Wednesday. I've never been impressed with Army marksmanship training - and it was really frustrating as a battery-level commander in an artillery unit trying to get my people qualified to what I considered an acceptable level. The system got in the way, from STRAC allocations of ammo, to getting range time, and when I commanded a Headquarters Battery, staff grumpiness about... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/basic_marksmanship_training.html http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/basic_marksmanship_training.html Tue, 21 Dec 2004 08:42:06 -0600 http://heartlesslibertarian.blogspot.com/2004_12_19_heartlesslibertarian_archive.html#110377207868335085]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/basic_marksmanship_training.html#comment-10636 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/basic_marksmanship_training.html#comment-10636 Thu, 23 Dec 2004 04:23:57 -0600 That's why I pinged you! http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/basic_marksmanship_training.html#comment-10618 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/basic_marksmanship_training.html#comment-10618 Wed, 22 Dec 2004 14:54:52 -0600 I'll have more complete commentary later, but the gist of it is that they're talking about two different and distantly related things: the introduction of the EST 2000 (which rocks) to replace the Weaponeer (state of the early 70s tech)in marksmanship training and what we here at Ft Jackson call "weapons immersion" which has little to do with marksmanship and more to do with reducing the number of Negligent Discharges (NDs) among troops in theater. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/basic_marksmanship_training.html#comment-10617 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/basic_marksmanship_training.html#comment-10617 Wed, 22 Dec 2004 14:43:09 -0600 Field strip and reassemble in 2-3 minutes? Oh my achin' back. I think all my DI's are spinning in their graves, and they aren't even dead yet. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/basic_marksmanship_training.html#comment-10611 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/basic_marksmanship_training.html#comment-10611 Wed, 22 Dec 2004 10:52:58 -0600 How low has our Republic fallen! I recall reading a book printed yrs and yrs ago, long since purged (uh, I mean "weeded") from our local public library. In it, the author expressed his belief that you could count on yer average young American male to hit anything within 20 yards with a shotgun, with his eyes shut. Of course that doesn't apply to rifle shooting, and this guy said he never heard of game wardens until quite mature, and it was an OLD book when I first saw it. Still and all, I do think that all citizens of any republic should have to qualify at the range every year (among other duties), or not be allowed to vote. I believe the Swiss still insist upon this. Hey, ya gotta a love a weird little country with more shootin' ranges than golf courses! http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/basic_marksmanship_training.html#comment-10606 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/basic_marksmanship_training.html#comment-10606 Tue, 21 Dec 2004 20:48:02 -0600 I think what Mike's confusing two rifles that are superimposed. One is what the Drill's checking (with the barrel pointed somewhere in front of the photographer's feet, the other is held by another soldier further back with the butt on the ground. Weapons training can't get much crappier than Air Force basic. One afternoon in a classroom learning which end is which, using rifles with carbon literally falling out of the magazine well when a magazine was removed. Then a morning at the range firing 50 shots with rifles fitted with .22 LR adapters. I experienced "only" 8 misfires -- a couple guys had over 20. Disgust only _begins_ to describe the feelings... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/basic_marksmanship_training.html#comment-10604 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/basic_marksmanship_training.html#comment-10604 Tue, 21 Dec 2004 20:17:40 -0600 Mike - looks to me like the Drill is checking the rear sight, not looking down the muzzle. The soldier's left hand is holding the handguard, with the barrel continuing on down towards the ground. Or are you referring to the photographer's position? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/basic_marksmanship_training.html#comment-10598 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/basic_marksmanship_training.html#comment-10598 Tue, 21 Dec 2004 14:11:12 -0600 As previous comments have pointed out, the best way to ensure familiarity with one's personal weapon is to live with it night and day for an extended period. Its been near 30 years since I wore green and I'll lay odds I can still strip, assemble, do IA's and stoppages blindfolded. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/basic_marksmanship_training.html#comment-10597 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/basic_marksmanship_training.html#comment-10597 Tue, 21 Dec 2004 13:23:29 -0600 On the day I was to sign in to PLDC, I had to go to the dispensary to get pinch-tested (always room to spare, but I always had to get pinched). The NCO Academy (headed in those days by the great CSM Richard Kidd) would not let me check my weapon into the arms room until I got approved. I went to the dispensary and was promptly escorted to the door by some irate female major nurse-type who berated me loudly about bringing my weapon into the dispensary, and how we DON'T DO THAT! She insisted I leave it with some U/I private who happened to be standing outside having a smoke. Guess what my response to that was. Anyway, I ended up having to go back to the NCO academy so someone there could arrange for me to go back to the dispensary to get pinched, because I still couldn't check my rifle into the arms room there. Suffice to say, I finally went into the dispensary WITH my weapon, and the idiot nurse and I just glared at each other as I walked by her. What should have taken 20 minutes took several hours, and to this day, I don't get the logic of that. Now when people ask me why I left the Army after 14 years, depending on my mood, I always tell them either 1) the Army didn't trust us with guns and bullets, or 2) I hated having to take off my shirt so I could roll up my sleeves. Most non-military people don't get it, but that's ok. Those who know, know. -SangerM http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/basic_marksmanship_training.html#comment-10596 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/basic_marksmanship_training.html#comment-10596 Tue, 21 Dec 2004 13:00:43 -0600 It is good to hear that soldier's are sleeping with their best friend once again. However, that picture is of one of the stupidest thing I have ever seen. YOU DON'T LOOK DOWN THE BARREL!! I teach 4-H youth how to shoot and would use this picture as an example of what NOT TO DO. Cheers http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/basic_marksmanship_training.html#comment-10589 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/basic_marksmanship_training.html#comment-10589 Tue, 21 Dec 2004 11:04:50 -0600 Looks like we're finally getting back to where we were in, oh, say, 1972--before VOLAR, before mixed-gender BCT, and before the PC gurus decided it was absolutely unacceptable to expect poor, impressionable youngsters to remain in close proximity to something so horrible as a personal weapon. Having a succession of moonbats occupying High Ground didn't help much, either... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/basic_marksmanship_training.html#comment-10587 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/12/basic_marksmanship_training.html#comment-10587 Tue, 21 Dec 2004 09:54:08 -0600