Comments for The answer to the question...

The answer to the question...

2004-06-28T12:02:16Z

Which only one of you guys bit on, anyway. The question is here.

Gunner - you were really very close. It's the cartridge (not the primer) that goes in a PIAT round. Which isn't recoilless, but ya still got pretty close, all things considered!

Here's the cartridge in context (in service it was all the way up inside the tube and not visible).

My PIAT round is actually one of the more complete 'in the wild' outside of big time museums. I have the cartridge, the fuze holder (battlefield recovery from Oosterbeek Heights, Arnhem), and a fuze. Since it was an inert trainer not intended to be fired, it disassembles to show the forcing cone of the shaped charge and the shape of the charge itself.

So, take this post, add to the other PIAT post, and you've got a pretty good idea of what the PIAT was and how it worked.

Comment from Derek on 2004-07-31

2004-07-31T14:10:24Z

Thanks for the info John. One did come up for sale (briefly!) on ebay, but the auction was cancelled. I was able to contact the seller by email, but he has set a reserve of $1,500! for the P.I.A.T. He has no projectile for it, although I've found one in England but I'm not sure if it could be imported to the U.S. His P.I.A.T. has the stirrup monopod which you suggested is rarer the the single leg monopod, but would that make it worth $1,500.00? I served as a Canadian Military Engineer and I'm now participating in reenactments as a WW II Royal Canadian Engineer sapper. If you ever come across any commonwealth Engineer kit for sale, I'd be extremely grateful if you notified me. Thanks for your help. Cheemo!

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2004-07-27

2004-07-27T10:54:21Z

We could argue functionality of a weapon that if not used perfectly under fire requires 150lb men to re-cock a 200 lb spring under fire... I always described it as a weapon that fit the the Brit gov'ts attitude to it's soldiery - love/hate. Anyway. Yes, they do come on the market now and again. Almost all of them are like mine, later models with the single-leg monopod, though there are a few with the 'stirrup' monopod (which is almost an oxy-moron...). One like mine (especially now since I got a butt pad finally) with slings seem to run between $500-700. I've seen them higher, but I don't know if they sold at that price. You can occaisionally see them cheaper than that - if it isn't an auction, and it's complete, snatch it up. If it's an auction, hope no one else notices, and snatch it up. Add $100 for the sub-caliber tray insert. If one were to come on the market with canvas, and a bomb, those have been going for $900-1000. Bombs can be a little funny, and pricing is variable on those. Mine is a training dummy, properly marked, and has the fuze, all the internals (since it was intended to be taken apart for instructional purposes) and little to no rust. $300 any more. A beat up warshot, with the guts ripped out, and some rust, crappy paint, will match it in price, because there is a hard corps of collectors out there who only want warshots, not trainers. A pristine but deactivated warshot will go in the $500-700 range. I have seen no serviceable rounds available anywhere. Of course, with a round, you also have to get the launch cartridge. The unavailability of that stuff is why the PIAT was removed from the NFA list. My round, since it's complete with fuze, fuze holder (Arnhem battlefield recovery) and launching cartridge would go in the $400-700 range depending on how desperate or deep-pocketed were.

Comment from Derek on 2004-07-26

2004-07-27T03:03:55Z

I've always thought that the P.I.A.T. was one of the more typically british weapons; archaic yet functional. Do any of these ever come up for sale and how much would they sell for? Cheemo!

Comment from Gunner on 2004-06-29

2004-06-30T02:16:19Z

I saw an interview with a British soldier who carried one during the war. He stood about 5'3" and said with his small size it was a pain to cock it. He then did it for the camera. That little 70-80 year old guy did it just fine. But he did grunt some.

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2004-06-29

2004-06-29T11:26:10Z

You are not alone there, Gunner. There are sites on the 'net that assert the PIAT round is rocket-assisted like a bazooka. While I don't know for sure, I can see at least three reasons people could develop the idea - especially since PIATs are pretty rare. 1. The opening of the tube is slightly flared (to make it easier to insert the cartridge and for the rod to enter - but if you don't know anything about rockets, that could look like the nozzle of a rocket exhaust. 2. The round itself looks vaguely like the bazooka round; fat nose, thin tube, circular fins. 3. Since many of the contemporary accounts of the PIAT refer to it as the 'british bazooka' or "british equivalent to a bazooka" it's easy to take that idea and run with it. All of which serves to point out a dilemma for the historian, when using secondary sources (and if you've ever tried to write something using only primary sources, you know how hard that can be) - you have to make assumptions that the writer you are sourcing has done their homework. Journalistic sources are considered by many as primary sources, as you are using the writing of someone contemporary to an event... but as anyone who has followed the coverage of OEF/OIF knows - journo's don't always know what they are talking about. Many contemporary readers (like me) recognize the errors and account for it - but 30 years from now those errors will be set in stone and harder to chip away at. Heh. This turned into a post, didn't it?

Comment from Gunner on 2004-06-28

2004-06-29T03:53:42Z

I always thought the PIAT was a small rocket like the Bazooka round. It is more like the spigot mortar you talked about. Always thought it was their version of the Bazooka, but never could figure out why they had that long, hard to cock, rod that activated it. Saw a guy demostrate how to load it on TV once and would not want to do that under fire.

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2004-06-28

2004-06-28T23:38:01Z

C'mon, Teresa, wing it! That'll show the test of your metal... rather than the weak excuse of "All my stuff was in boxes..." snicker

Comment from Teresa on 2004-06-28

2004-06-28T22:43:02Z

I would've tried to guess if I knew even vaguely what any of those things were... Since I don't, I didn't. *G*

Comment from J.M. Heinrichs on 2004-06-28

2004-06-28T18:28:10Z

Well, I would have commented but since it was obviously not related to either the 105mm L7 or the 76mm L23, it must have been a less worthy find. Besides, I spent 2.5 hours surfing for cartridge information because SomeOne only raises these questions becausae he knows that all my reference material is in boxes! Cheers JMH

Comment from Calliope on 2004-06-28

2004-06-28T13:26:56Z

Oh MAN!!! I could have won this one. I know what a Piat round is. I missed the post! No fair! (I'm lying. I did miss the post but it could have been the radio button on an Edsel as far as I know.)