We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2007 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/05/more_on_the_iraqi_prisoner_abuse_scandal.html Sun, 03 Aug 2008 17:40:56 Z Movable Type 4.12 en Copyright 2008 http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification #1. BG Karpinski should just shut up. She's digging the hole for herself deeper and deeper. She wants to take someone down with her, it would seem. I understand she's terrified that she's being set up. Fine. Get with your lawyer, start building a defense that names names. But General, you're just making yourself sound like a fool - and more and more an embarrassment to the uniform you wear. #2. Between forays over to The Queen of All Evil to defend my criticism of Kerry (which has turned into teaching pigs to wrestle - we're just getting dirty, but... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/05/more_on_the_iraqi_prisoner_abuse_scandal.html http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/05/more_on_the_iraqi_prisoner_abuse_scandal.html Mon, 03 May 2004 21:23:59 -0600 Arghh.....you are absolutely correct, commanders should take responsibility, however, she was blindsided b/c no one told her or her staff of the changes to the interrogation policies. The saddest thing here is that everyone is taking the 15-6 report as truth. I tell you this....that report has many, many inaccuracies in it. Trust me! http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/05/more_on_the_iraqi_prisoner_abuse_scandal.html#comment-4690 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/05/more_on_the_iraqi_prisoner_abuse_scandal.html#comment-4690 Tue, 08 Jun 2004 17:14:35 -0600 I have never been in anybody's army and I don't know if my comments will be accepted. I live in Canada. I find it fascinating to read the dispassionate views of the situation and believe that the US can take pride, not in what happened, obviously, but in the principled stand that their armed forces is taking, evidenced by the comments I see here. You have gone back to principles, to oaths, to what is the right thing. That is the true difference between America's armed forces and most others. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/05/more_on_the_iraqi_prisoner_abuse_scandal.html#comment-4128 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/05/more_on_the_iraqi_prisoner_abuse_scandal.html#comment-4128 Sat, 15 May 2004 06:27:43 -0600 I have no doubt BG Karpinski did as you said - but, as a retired officer with 24 years of service, I still think she's an idiot speaking to the press the way she has been. I read the 15-6. I stand by what I said. You are correct, you can't train common sense. And you are correct, I wasn't there. That doesn't give the general a pass. It just means that you have different information and are closer to the problem than I was. That doesn't neccessarily make your judgement on this matter better than mine. Nor does my distance make mine better than yours. And I'll happily see a few heads higher than BG Karpinski's roll if they should. I commanded, Law. I know what the responsibilities are. From the evidence thus far presented, and since I'm not going to sit on that jury - getting fired from her position is the least that should happen to her. I'll leave anything else to competent authority. Like it or not - it happened on her watch, and it was her responsiblity. The only question is how many careers terminate with hers. The last thing that should happen here is that the little people take the fall. Remember your oath. "Well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter." She may be faithful - but she failed on the well part. It's a tough business. It's tougher in war. However much you like and respect her - from all that I've seen thus far - she failed. And now she's whining. She's not defending herself, she's whining that she's going to be the only one to take a hit. She thinks others need to go down with her, she can cooperate with the Art 32 and any other 15-6's in the works. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/05/more_on_the_iraqi_prisoner_abuse_scandal.html#comment-3958 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/05/more_on_the_iraqi_prisoner_abuse_scandal.html#comment-3958 Sat, 08 May 2004 21:37:36 -0600 You all have comments but none of you were there or know what happened over there. I was there and I can tell you that BG Karpinski is a great commander who lead her troops honorably, despite what a few soldiers under her command did. You cannot train common sense but you can and should check on your soldiers. BG Karpinski checked on all her leaders and soldiers all the time but some of those soldiers failed her. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/05/more_on_the_iraqi_prisoner_abuse_scandal.html#comment-3957 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/05/more_on_the_iraqi_prisoner_abuse_scandal.html#comment-3957 Sat, 08 May 2004 21:13:14 -0600 feeling is that if it happened under her command she is also culpable to some degree whether she knew of it or not. Maybe John can expound on that also. Aren't officers responsible for the discipline and moral of their command John? How that will play out though who knows. ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/05/more_on_the_iraqi_prisoner_abuse_scandal.html#comment-3834 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/05/more_on_the_iraqi_prisoner_abuse_scandal.html#comment-3834 Tue, 04 May 2004 09:29:58 -0600 It's been quite some time since I was a junior enlisted, and a slightly longer time since I was in recruit training. However, I distinctly remember being lectured on what sorts of things constituted a lawful order and that we were not required to obey an UNlawful order, and if we felt the order we were given was UNlawful, to get it in writing, and if we felt it was warranted go see the Legal Officer before obeying it. Supposedly asking to have the order in writing would usually stop it then and there. The defenses of folks at the Nuremburg trials were specifically mentioned as proof that saying "I was just obeying orders" would not let us off the hook for obeying an UNlawful order. I agree whole heartedly with John on this... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/05/more_on_the_iraqi_prisoner_abuse_scandal.html#comment-3828 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/05/more_on_the_iraqi_prisoner_abuse_scandal.html#comment-3828 Mon, 03 May 2004 21:44:29 -0600