We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2007 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/05/gee_it_just_gets_better.html Sun, 03 Aug 2008 17:40:55 Z Movable Type 4.12 en Copyright 2008 http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Two Iraqi prisoners were murdered by Americans and 23 other deaths are being investigated in Iraq and Afghanistan, the United States revealed on Tuesday as the Bush administration tried to contain growing outrage over the abuse of Iraqi detainees. "The actions of the soldiers in those photographs are totally unacceptable and un-American," Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said of humiliating images in the media of Iraqi prisoners. "Any who engaged in such action let down their comrades who serve honorably each day and they let down their country." Army officials said the military had investigated the deaths of... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/05/gee_it_just_gets_better.html http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/05/gee_it_just_gets_better.html Tue, 04 May 2004 18:58:24 -0600 I was pointing out that your comments, "and was reduced in rank to private and thrown out of the service but did not serve any jail time." and "At best it's manslaughter, at worst it's premeditated murder. Manslaughter gets you busted and fired?" These a;; point to judicial proceedings not administrative. In the Navy an Admin board could get you and OTH at worst. No jail time allowed. You are correct that some Officers should be fired at the very least. It appears that the NCO's could use some more leadership training as well. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/05/gee_it_just_gets_better.html#comment-3993 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/05/gee_it_just_gets_better.html#comment-3993 Sun, 09 May 2004 23:08:32 -0600 I know that, Mike. Mentioned elsewhere. I served on a few courtsmartial panels myself and am fully cognizant of 'command influence'. That doesn't mean that they can't influence administrative proceedings. All officer's serve at the pleasure of the President. He can withdraw his pleasure, should that be appropriate. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/05/gee_it_just_gets_better.html#comment-3967 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/05/gee_it_just_gets_better.html#comment-3967 Sun, 09 May 2004 10:05:03 -0600 President Bush and Sec Rumsfeld have no control over sentencing in Courts-Marshal cases so don't blame them for the outcomes. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/05/gee_it_just_gets_better.html#comment-3966 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/05/gee_it_just_gets_better.html#comment-3966 Sun, 09 May 2004 09:46:18 -0600 JMH: You are entirely correct in saying there are well over 150,000 other service personnel who are NOT commiting these atrocious acts, and those crimes should not be allowed to obscure the efforts of those who are acting properly. Unfortunately, it seems to be a facet of human nature that we focus on the negative and assign that negative to the whole. Hence the large number of bloggers who say "Islam is evil" based on the acts of a few hundred Muslims out of millions who do not commit atrocities. We cannot allow ourselves to let the acts of "bad apples" prompt us to condemn the entire group that those bad actors are members of, whether that group is the US military services or Islam. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/05/gee_it_just_gets_better.html#comment-3862 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/05/gee_it_just_gets_better.html#comment-3862 Wed, 05 May 2004 01:17:23 -0600 True, but are there not some 150,000+ other service personnel not committing these acts? Ridding the Army of those who choose to commit crimes such these should not be allowed to obscure the efforts of those who are "fighting the Good Fight". And in times like these, they need our support even more. (Of course I am thinking of Somalia.) Cheers JMH http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/05/gee_it_just_gets_better.html#comment-3852 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/05/gee_it_just_gets_better.html#comment-3852 Tue, 04 May 2004 21:13:56 -0600 You aren't out of line. I think we all feel that way. I think this makes me sickest of all... demoted and thrown out. And I didn't think it was possible for me to feel any worse about this situation. I should brace myself for tomorrow... every day is like a worse nightmare than the previous one. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/05/gee_it_just_gets_better.html#comment-3842 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2004/05/gee_it_just_gets_better.html#comment-3842 Tue, 04 May 2004 19:02:03 -0600