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June 25, 2005

Need some reading?

Carnival of the Recipes is up at over at Dana's!

Carnival of Cordite is up at Revolutionary War Veteran's Association.

The Navy seems to be having trouble with premature discharge issues. H/t, Larry K.

Confederate Yankee is throwing salt in Googleyes...

Chris over at the Jawa Report is picking on Arrianna Huffington - for shame! Sheesh, go for the easy target why doncha? 8^D

Over in Dean's World, Dean watches North Korean video - so you don't have to... Eff Yeah!

I've been silent on Kelo (I'm not happy, we live near a *huge* eminent domain abuser, the Unified Government of Wyandotte County (ex Kansas City, Kansas) and, Kansas City, Missouri, who has never truly acknowledged that private property is that. You are simply allowed to occupy and care for it until some rich guy comes along and tells me he'll generate more taxes for me if I'll take it away from you and give it to him... can anyone spell the racetrack? I knew you could... I wonder how many of the blue-collar types who are the core of NASCAR fandom know they are sitting in stands provided by the eminent domain seizure of... blue collar property. Heh. Bread and Circuses. Anyway, John Cole has a good post with lots of links to others - a good starting point for exploring the issue on the right side of the 'sphere. Interesting how it all comes down to money, in the end. Even the left, which you would think would be all over "take from the little guys and give it to the rich guy" aren't very noisy here... because it benefits their favorite enterprise... government.

I'm with Bruce here, I'm not interested in helping this kid out. But - at least it's voluntary... and I suppose you could flip it that if enough voluntary dollars kick in, this twit won't be sucking down as many tax dollars...

Entrepreneurs - get moving, Clayton Cramer wants to spend money on your products...

Soldiers are a sentimental and romantic lot...

Here I am trying to get a Denizen link-fest going, and Barb is treading perilously close... but I'll link anyway, because she links to good news about Chuch of TC Override, who was wounded in Iraq last week. (Well, there's also a picture of her over there...)

Blackfive sends us an OpOrd to support MediaSlander.

SWWBO has advice for Hollywood.

Kat discusses women in the military...

Punctilious does a little live-blogging...

Cassandra warns us not to get wobbly, discusses the Road to Serfdom, and offers a pointer to the Best Post Ever on Kelo.

Alan of GENX@40 gives us Fort Pr0n!

The Snarkatron honors real science and real scientists... and warns you to keep yer mitts off the Cutest House In *Some Unamed Municipality*!

AFSis and I share a common view of the Flag Burning Amendment (among other things, Congress has a *lot* mo' betta things to take up their time - of course, fiddling with this also keeps them out of other mischief... decisions, decisions...)

Jack at Random Fate points out that the US has admitted to torture. And that he is shamed for the nation. I'm not. As long as it holds true that the torture admitted to was committed not as policy, but violations of same, and that the guilty are sought and punished, I feel no shame at all. I won't say I'm proud, but, I am not ashamed. Jack is also going on vacation, and has given the keys to the kingdom to some guest-bloggers, including Yours Truly. After I have a chance to examine the stuff Jack talks about, I might have my first post over there cooking!

Over at Sergeant B's... "Bang bang! She shot you down!"

Via the Freeholder - we simply cannot lose.

John | Permalink | Comments (5) | Carnival of the Recipes | Denizen Link-Fest!
» Villainous Company links with: Denizens Report
Comments on Need some reading?
Jack briefed on June 25, 2005 03:41 PM

A quick question while I pack: In your view, just because the bad acts were committed by a few bad actors, does this relieve us of the responsibility that I feel we have in creating the situation in which the bad actors felt they could get away with their offenses?

This is a serious question, not an attempt at baiting. Where does the line of responsibility lie, and what should we do as a nation, and our government do in representing us, to avoid this happening in the future?

I have said repeatedly that we need to be more open with the prisons we build to house those fighting against us. I am not asking that we be suicidal and release those who fight us, nor that they be allowed unlimited communication with the outside world, but I do ask that we take measures to ensure that no charges of torture or abuses can stick because anyone can see that they are false.

AFSis briefed on June 25, 2005 04:57 PM

Thanks for the linky-love, John!

kat briefed on June 25, 2005 05:06 PM

I'll reply to that, even though I know you're talking to John.

First of all, it was the UN official that said "America Admits to torture". Not an American official. I have a problem with that.

I read the fbi documents on the aclu site. though highly redacted, you can get the gist of the situation. I think one could or should first know what the UN Human Rights definition of "torture" is.

I hate to be splitting hairs, but I didn't see anything that was "torture". I did see "abuse" in allegations by the detainees. Until I see the report to the UN, that's all I'm willing to admit to and just because some UN guy says "torture" I'm not buying it. I still think that it is a big joke that the UN human rights board, filled with Syrian, sudanese, etc I find that laughable and rather interesting since they would be very quick to rush to language use in order to bring us down and insure that we can't complain about their own behavior.

In regards to leaders and who set the tone, I believe that the issue has always been around on how to treat "OD" other detainees (also known as sabatuers and terrorists). Frankly, based on the incidents and time of new orders and reprimands, it would appear to me that when upper leadership became aware that there were issues they took steps to clarify with new orders, had others ordered to investigate direcly, replaced commanders at facilities, etc.

So, what do you think was responsible for the "tone"? and what are you expecting?

Since it was clear that many lower level commanders and MPs and MI did not mistake their responsibilities and did treat their prisoners correctly, how do you find it as a failure of administration to define the situation and how far would you go up the chain of command if a commander had three units and two did it correclty and one didn't, would you think the command had given contrary orders to the third unit?

Cassandra briefed on June 26, 2005 11:25 AM

Kat makes an important point.

At all times it is important to distinguish between our definition of torture (legally) and the UN definition because we are obligated to follow our *own* laws, not international standards.

Secondly, it is vital to distinguish unsanctioned actions in contravention of official policy from acts that occurred with official sanction and/or acts that were in accordance with US policy *and* were really torture.

While any torture should shock and concern us and should be punished, only that last category (unless we're talking a systemic problem rather than a few isolated acts) is a crisis.


An interesting question. And one, I might add, to which we still don't have the answers.

MorningSun briefed on July 1, 2005 09:08 AM

Since I can't help myself and you brought it up. Oddly enough when UN peacekeepers commited acts of rape and abuse in Africa did you see a headline that said UN admits torture? No , they don't have any troops. Yet they are the party responsible for those troops, no matter what country they are from they act under the umbrella of the UN.

Where the UN failed to account was in it's on administration. They have a habit of just retiring their problems.

At least here in the U.S. Our troops have a code of conduct they must follow. We do prosecute anyone commiting serious acts. There are only so many things leaders can do to control individuals.

Once you are into absolute control and responsibility of the Government, then you're closer to a dictatorship than a democracy.