Another view of the "Mutinous Platoon".

This was in the comments to the post below, but I thought it presents a view of the issue that should see a broader light of day.

From SangerM:

Just for the conversation: Once, while in the field on a REFORGER, I refused a lawful order given me (several times, clearly) by my PSG. I was a SGT on the 6-list, he was a SSG. The details don't matter, really, but this may be instructive for those who have never done so, or felt they had to.

1) I did NOT do so lightly.

2) I told my subordinates they should not get involved, that it was my issue, and that they should make up their own minds. Because it was not a situation where they could get killed, I did not feel compelled to lead them as they set out to do what I refused to do.

3) I reported to my 1SG, with whom I had an extremely close relationship (he was a mentor, in some ways father-like to me). I told him all of it, and why I did what I did. He was not happy, and he made no bones about telling me so (this was a man who had been field commissioned in Vietnam, and was RIF'd back to E-7, made E-8, and was on his way to be a SGM at the new Kaserne in Bremen)

4) It was night, I was told to find a place to sleep and it would be resolved in the morning. I went off by myself and cried a fair bit. Not because I felt sorry for myself but because I felt I'd had no choice, and because I had had to tell my 1SG what I had done. I also felt my career was over.

5) Fortunately, the shithead proved himself the moron I knew him to be while he was out doing my job. He made my team work the radars in the cold and snow all night while he sat inside a nearby Gasthaus and drank beer. Then he crashed in the jeep until the sun came up and my fellows woke him up to pack out. For some reason, he thought they wouldn't rat his ass out when they got back. Right.

6) He was canned & I became PSG.

7) To this day, I remember exactly how I felt when I decided to say no. I was not joyous, or proud, nor even a little fun. I was sad, scared, and extremely aware of the fact that I had broken the most basic rule the Army has: Follow the order, fight about it after the fact, but follow the order!

8) On reading the article about the folks in Iraq, I am forced to wonder what set of circumstances drove those soldiers to the decisions they made. Certainly it was not purely fear, because the whole group refused. Was it the PSG or Team Sgt's fault? Did he tell people to disobey or did he take a stand that he felt important and refused to lead?

As everyone else said above, it's hard to know without facts, but I do know this. NCOs in Today's Army wouldn't refuse legal orders without a DAMN good reason. This is not Vietnam, and that was not Company C.

Personally, without more facts, my thoughts tend to wonder about the NCO and Junior Officer leadership in that unit. Soldiers--and nowadays that means NG and AR--don't just say no without feeling they have a good reason. This just feels like something that has a WHOLE lot more to it.

BTW, though I know this could generate a lot of commentary, I want to say this: If you never had to disobey a lawful or legal order, you just _can't_ know how someone who considers himself a professional soldier feels when he does. I was right, but even 25 years later, I still remember how that felt.

SangerM

As I said in my bit on the subject: It's a potentially serious offense, and the system will deal with it - and not always in the way the conventional wisdom would have you believe.